New 135 high tech build in Arlington

[cilyjr]

I hear ya. I felt these things were a bit on the overkill side when they got shown.

John k and I discussed building an algae reactor with a t5 bulb done the middle a couple years ago and decided that the led wrap was just easier.

My opinion is it's making an easily solved problem more complicated at 10x the price!

 

[dz6t]

Totally agree.
Frequent algae removal is part of the nutrient export process.
The reactor type design make this process unnecessarily complicated.
Also a jam packed algae colony have a bigger chance to die off and become harmful to the reef.
Also, now we learned that high power light make refugium more productive.
Those LED lights inside the said reactor is way under powered.

 

[dz6t]

Also, back to the lighting, 4 Kessil 160we is not enough light for a 135 gallon tank.
Each 160we is 40 watts, it is not a replacement for a 175w metal halide, not even close. it is more like a 75w metal halide.

If Kessil is the choice, 4 Kessil 360WE is more likely the better choice.

 

[jcl333]

Is the tank 6 feet long?

Yes, 135G 72" long x 18" wide x 24" tall...

 

[jcl333]

The ARID algae filter can have issue down the road because of coraline algae and and other film type algae covering the tube wall that house the LED light.
It is a unique design and looks cool. But I think it is too small to effectively filter a 135 gallon system.

In the instructions they do mention cleaning that stuff off regularly.

Not sure about the size / capacity, although I often get one size larger than I need so that it still works if I upgrade.

 

[jcl333]

Yes the C36 model at $1695 which they said rated for 300 to 1000 gallon. The chamber is 8 inch in diameter and 30 inch tall. Led power is 42 watt. But even with this largest model, I don't think it can support a tank anywhere near 300 gallon.


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It appears to me that the sizes are based on testing and empirical results.... do we have reason to believe it is insufficient?

 

[jcl333]

Harvesting algae from it is a pain in the ...
I have a ball of algae about 10 inch in diameter just to scavenge CO2 coming out of the calcium reactor, it double in size every week and I have to trim it back.


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Is it more of a pain than water changes?

 

[dz6t]

It appears to me that the sizes are based on testing and empirical results.... do we have reason to believe it is insufficient?

I yet to see them publish any testing results.


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[dz6t]

Is it more of a pain than water changes?

Refugium or algae reactor will not replace water change, so you still have to do water change regardless.


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[gzr918]

I yet to see them publish any testing results.


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From what I heard from MACNA, the retailers themselves were advertising the units more as a CO2 scrubber on steroids than the nutrient removal tool we want it to be.

 

[dz6t]

If your goal is to eliminate water change, the equipment you have or going to have will not reach that goal.
If your goal is to eliminate water change, you may end up limited yourself to soft coral and some LPS. Even that, your tank will have harmful organic build up that can't be removed by all those methods you mentioned.


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[dz6t]

From what I heard from MACNA, the retailers themselves were advertising the units more as a CO2 scrubber on steroids than the nutrient removal tool we want it to be.

Lol, that is one hack of CO2 scrubber.


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[dz6t]

Actually it make more sense to use it as a CO2 scrubber. One of my CO2 scrubber is about the same volume as their largest unit. I pull 1/2 of the algae out weekly. But mine is just half of a cheap 20 gallon tank with a 10 inch ball of algae with a $25 led on top. It works great.


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[jcl333]

Totally agree.
Frequent algae removal is part of the nutrient export process.
The reactor type design make this process unnecessarily complicated.
Also a jam packed algae colony have a bigger chance to die off and become harmful to the reef.
Also, now we learned that high power light make refugium more productive.
Those LED lights inside the said reactor is way under powered.

I am wondering what you are basing some of these comments on.

I became interested in this algae reactor based on the documentation they have such as this:
https://www.f3images.com/IMD/UserManuals/6U1424_1.pdf
Which answer some of the points people are bringing up.

But also based on multiple reviews of people actually using them, and I don't know, maybe they are all shills for the company?

From that, I would not disagree that this is a complex product to use, such as compared to your typical DIY algae scrubber.

But the light being way under powered? I have not seen anyone mention that as a problem. If anything, they mention how intense the lights are. And in theory, this design will use light more efficiently because the algae is right up against the light, and there should be minimal shading, it's very even distribution of light. Intensity drops rapidly with distance, so when you are not lighting up a whole tank or refugium, you can utilize more of the light for the intended purpose. 45 watts in one of these might be equivalent to 150-200W in a different setup. Light intensity vs. distance follows and inverse square: https://forum.growkind.com/threads/what-is-my-light-intensity-vs-distance-from-bulb.7268/
So those first few cm or inches are important.

If I saw someone do a shoot-out between an inexpensive DIY scrubber, say with a budget of $250 and did a scientifically sound comparison, I could see buying or building the DIY solution knowing and accepting whatever trade-offs there were.

But, what I have seen is the cons are that it is complex and it is expensive, but most everything else appears to be pros.

 

[jcl333]

Also, back to the lighting, 4 Kessil 160we is not enough light for a 135 gallon tank.
Each 160we is 40 watts, it is not a replacement for a 175w metal halide, not even close. it is more like a 75w metal halide.

If Kessil is the choice, 4 Kessil 360WE is more likely the better choice.

I actually bought these based on a direct recommendation from Kessil, and they did say 4 should be enough for all but the most light-demanding corals, depending on the arrangement (such as distance and so on). I am sure they would have been happy to sell me more lights if I needed them.

Note that, a typical 100w equivalent LED is about 12w actual draw, so about 10:1. Now, obviously doing the math and getting 400W equivalent MH is an oversimplification, but 175W equivalent doesn't seem completely far fetched to me. I guess we could compare them directly with lumens, par, nits, etc. but you also would have to account for spectrum, distance, focus, and so on. I will bet people have done reviews on that.

 

[jcl333]

Actually it make more sense to use it as a CO2 scrubber. One of my CO2 scrubber is about the same volume as their largest unit. I pull 1/2 of the algae out weekly. But mine is just half of a cheap 20 gallon tank with a 10 inch ball of algae with a $25 led on top. It works great.


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So, in that case, perhaps the DIY solution makes allot more sense if only compared as a CO2 scrubber.

 

[jcl333]

I yet to see them publish any testing results.


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Well, indicating algae scrubber size X is recommended for tank size Y would be one.

But, aside from that looking at some of the reviews, they are possibly underestimating their capacity rather than overstating it.

 

[jcl333]

Refugium or algae reactor will not replace water change, so you still have to do water change regardless.


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This is the commonly held belief, yes. But I am seeing multiple examples of no-water change systems, or at least no "scheduled" water changes such as weekly, etc. They are going months or years without.

Two examples are the Triton system and the DSR system. The Triton actually specifies the use of an algae scrubber of some sort. And I agree that by itself would not do it. But, with the right dosing of other things, it looks like it might be possible.

This is one of the things I want to try and find out with this setup, see if it can be done / if I can do it.

 

[jcl333]

If your goal is to eliminate water change, the equipment you have or going to have will not reach that goal.
If your goal is to eliminate water change, you may end up limited yourself to soft coral and some LPS. Even that, your tank will have harmful organic build up that can't be removed by all those methods you mentioned.


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Well, I am looking to emulate the methods claimed by others who said they were able to do it. Maybe it won't work and they are full of crap, but it would be extremely cool if it is possible. What would you think if it was? If you look at the results the guy from DSR is getting, it is pretty amazing. It could be a scam, but so far I have not seen anyone test it out and say that, it is of people who did it, or came very close.

 

[jcl333]

Actually it make more sense to use it as a CO2 scrubber. One of my CO2 scrubber is about the same volume as their largest unit. I pull 1/2 of the algae out weekly. But mine is just half of a cheap 20 gallon tank with a 10 inch ball of algae with a $25 led on top. It works great.


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It is great, but you still need to do water changes. Now maybe you are right and it can not be done, or maybe you are closer to being able to do it than you think.

I did visit the Georgia Aquarium and talk with some of their tech guys on the "back stage" tour. And I did not believe it either when he said they had a system that did without water changes. But, I could not prove him wrong, and so far I still cannot.

Now, some of the things they are doing at a $300M public aquarium can't easily be scaled down, but he actually thought it could be done. Some of the things you can do on a smaller tank, by the same token, cannot be easily scaled up either.