Anemone VS Corals

[shrimpchips]

Isolate the BTA and the clowns in a bare 5g tank. It shouldn’t take long for them to cozy up to the BTA (or the air stone/pump/heater, maybe). Let them stay for a week or two until they’re firmly bonded to the anemone and have associated it as “home”. Put back into tank. Watch BTA wander and settle, and clowns seek it out. Works every time, most of the time.

 

[Greg Hiller]

I generally disagree with the statement that tank-raised fish are not healthy. Yes, tank-raised clowns will be less likely to immediately go into an anemone, but it's not a big deal.

 

[this is me]

I think I was misunderstood. I didn’t say captive bred fish are unhealthy. I said the captive bred clownfish business is a sick sh** show. You take two fish from the wild to breed. Okay. But what happens afterward is what I’m not okay with. Two brother and sister will then mate because one or both of them have some irregularities(that would’ve been culled in the wild). Then their offsprings again to be bred because of some irregularities and the most sickening of all, these offsprings are often be mated with one of the parents. Just think about that. All to profit someone’s pocketbook. Do you really think an all white clown(we called them platinum) and especially the long fin clownfish would survived in the wild? Why you think we see so many stubby clowns or smashed in face clownfish. These are all deformities from inbreeding that would’ve been culled in the wild.
The reality of these breeding condition is often the pair in a small(ish) tank, constantly fed to mature them faster so that they can breed. I support coral sustainability but I don’t support captive bred specialty clownfish.

 

[ChrisV]

I think I was misunderstood. I didn’t say captive bred fish are unhealthy. I said the captive bred clownfish business is a sick sh** show. You take two fish from the wild to breed. Okay. But what happens afterward is what I’m not okay with. Two brother and sister will then mate because one or both of them have some irregularities(that would’ve been culled in the wild). Then their offsprings again to be bred because of some irregularities and the most sickening of all, these offsprings are often be mated with one of the parents. Just think about that. All to profit someone’s pocketbook. Do you really think an all white clown(we called them platinum) and especially the long fin clownfish would survived in the wild? Why you think we see so many stubby clowns or smashed in face clownfish. These are all deformities from inbreeding that would’ve been culled in the wild.
The reality of these breeding condition is often the pair in a small(ish) tank, constantly fed to mature them faster so that they can breed. I support coral sustainability but I don’t support captive bred specialty clownfish.

I heard that onyx percs have a 95% cull rate, which is a bit insane/difficult to accept.

For a very long time I was very opposed to "designer" clowns. This spring I broke down and brought one and I do like it. I don't like the long fins, but some of the pattern mutations are interesting. I agree that many (maybe the majority?) of designer clowns I have seen have had substantial anatomical defects that I assume often go unnoticed.

It's the same case in freshwater fish that have been very line bred to produce certain traits. It's just a saltwater goldfish. On one hand, a bit gross. On the other hand, think of how many wild clowns have remained on the reef thanks to the trend of designer clowns. I can live with it.

 

[this is me]

Okay. What is an Onyx clown?
A Percula clown that has been selectively inbred with the most darkest black. So the onyx clown you see is probably from brother and sisters, sons and mother, daughter and father and his father breeding together.

 

[ChrisV]

Okay. What is an Onyx clown?
A Percula clown that has been selectively inbred with the most darkest black. So the onyx clown you see is probably from brother and sisters, sons and mother, daughter and father and his father breeding together.

Yep, pretty sure the commercially available ones are super super inbred. I do remember people claiming wild caught onyx clowns back in the early 2000s, but they seemed to almost never turn up in the hobby. Probably not nearly as dark as the current inbred ones.

 

[jfoahs04]

Stupid question from the uninformed, but is inbreeding among clownfish uncommon in the wild? And are the effects of inbreeding in the wild necessarily the same level of negative that they would be in more "advanced" animals? I also think the survival rate of a captive bred brood is going to be drastically higher than a wild brood due to the elimination (or major reduction) of natural selection. My captive bred "Davinci" Ocellaris has a tiny, deformed pectoral fin on the right side. No way it would have survived to adulthood in the wild as it does not swim well (even for a clown), but it's thriving in my 13.5 gallon box. Whether that tiny fin is the product of inbreeding or typical in wild fish (even one that doesn't reach maturity), I don't know. But I'm generally curious as I don't think inbreeding is all that unusual among a number of species in the wild.

Either way, I can still see some real ethical issues with selective breeding (not the same as inbreeding) for certain traits that don't exist in the wild.

 

[this is me]

Who knows what happens in the wild. There’s many fish in the sea. The point is, any deformities and/or incest gene will likely be killed off so the bad genetic may never be passed down from generation to generation(minus environment impact).
There are many fish in the ocean especially the fish that is commercially bred. Give me a captive bred fish is threaten or close to extinction then there’s a reason to buy it.
Deformed inbred clownfish, no thanks!

 

[Zirky]

As fascinating as this debate is. I’d like to backtrack a bit,if I may, and hopefully get some information on non encrusting or invasive corals that will successfully host clowns. I let loose my clowns of war to fend off potential tang aggression. And now I’m kinda freaking out (thanks nick) for fear of my future lps colony’s. Will fuzzy mushrooms spread like other mushrooms?are there other options? I’ve read that they like Gonipora. Will they kill that?

 

[ChrisV]

As fascinating as this debate is. I’d like to backtrack a bit,if I may, and hopefully get some information on non encrusting or invasive corals that will successfully host clowns. I let loose my clowns of war to fend off potential tang aggression. And now I’m kinda freaking out (thanks nick) for fear of my future lps colony’s. Will fuzzy mushrooms spread like other mushrooms?are there other options? I’ve read that they like Gonipora. Will they kill that?

Most fuzzy mushrooms can be pretty prone to spreading. The super fancy ones spread more slowly.

Sarcophyton and sinularia make good hosts, if the clowns ever move in. Gonipora may work but honestly I would be concerned for any LPS.

This is all a sort of academic discussion: the clowns will associate with what they choose. If you decide you don't want them to associate with that lifeform or inanimate object, you will need to remove it.

 

[this is me]

The problem with LPS hosts is that they have a skeleton and when something is rubbed against them, they eventually will die.
I think it’s best to match up the natural host with the clownfish. Percula and Occ requires a magnifica and gigantea anemone which are quite hard to get settled in a tank.
Use this chart. If you follow the natural host for the clownfish, it likely will work.
As you can see, BTA are not meant for Percula and Occelaris. Coupled that with captive bred, it’s no wonder why we have so many of these “my clownfish won’t go in my bta” threads.
Just try to match the clownfish with a natural host is the best thing you can do.

 

[Zirky]

Nick you always have great chart and advice thanks