ATI Essentials

[Chris A.]

Thinking about doing the ATI essentials method. Anyone try it yet?Do you or did you like it?
I don’t do regular water changes and think this could work for my current situation.

 

[Joe Rice]

I have a short thread on reef2reef about my experience with ATI essentials.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/363802/

TLDR: it's working well and I'm pleased with it.

 

[Chris A.]

I’m going for it. The cost of it would be what a normal water change schedule would be for me so I’m just going to buy it.
If you bake the alk part like you would baking soda you’ll get the ph up ( they use bicarbonate and carbonate )

 

[Joe Rice]

My pH varies between about 8.02 at night and 8.25 during the day so I'm fine with that. I'd be wary about baking it though as who knows how that would affect the other chemicals in part 1 (the alk part).

 

[Chris A.]

From what I read on the whole ati essentials thread, the alk part is just a mix of bicarbonate and carbonate, no traces of anything else in it.
Have you done a icp test yet?

 

[Chris A.]

How big is your tank Joe and do you have a high demand?
Trying to figure out if I should get the 500 or the 1000 ml bottles

 

[Joe Rice]

Haven't done an ICP test since switching but I'll probably do one soon.

Tank is a 150g with medium demand. And I go through a 1000 ml bottle of #1 and #2 about every 35 days.

From what I read on the whole ati essentials thread, the alk part is just a mix of bicarbonate and carbonate, no traces of anything else in it.

Interesting. Could switch to BRS soda ash for part #1 then and save a few bucks.

 

[Chris A.]

 

[Joe Rice]

Cool. I've got a spare 10 liter jug if you need it for solution #1. I'd definitely suggest the BRS slim 4 liter jugs for #2 and #3.

 

[dz6t]

The difference from ATI vs BRS is the trace elements in their calcium and magnesium dosing reagents.
My take of trace elements as follow, this is just my opinion as a scientist:
1. I can not find scientific studies show that most of the trace elements sold in this hobby are essential to coral growth. Iron and iodine are micro nutrients but both can lead to unwanted effects in a reef tank upon over dose.

2. The major arguments for trace elements are: they are in the sea water, they were found in Coral skeleton.

First of all, trace elements present in sea water does not mean coral will utilize them. In fact, many of the trace elements sold in the hobby are toxic to coral.

Second, during calcification, trace elements can be precipitated and incorporated into coral skeleton. It dost not mean coral actually utilize them.

An analogy is that Arsenic is fond in nature and in human with long term exposure. But arsenic is toxic to human and better without it.

In case you got adducted by aliens, should they dose arsenic to you thinking you need it as a trace elements?

3. Most trace elements are metal that immediately bind to the large amount of carbonate in sea water and precipitate out of water column and skimmed out by skimmers.

As a skeptical reefer in this snake oil filled hobby, I am not convinced that adding trace elements is beneficial to coral. Despite trace elements additives carry large profit margins for fish stores.


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[Joe Rice]

I can not find scientific studies show that most of the trace elements sold in this hobby are essential to coral growth

But are there studies that show that trace elements are NOT essential? Or is this just an area that hasn't been researched?

In fact, many of the trace elements sold in the hobby are toxic to coral

I would guess that this is true of all trace elements at some concentration. That doesn't mean that the same trace elements aren't needed at lower concentrations.

As a skeptical reefer in this snake oil filled hobby, I am not convinced that adding trace elements is beneficial to coral. Despite trace elements additives carry large profit margins for fish stores.

Skepticism is certainly warranted here. And it's hard to argue with your success, Dong - you have beautiful tanks with gorgeous corals. But, if I'm correct, you do add trace elements in that you do water changes. My theory (and that of many others) is that water changes are an inefficient way to add trace elements - why not just add them directly? Yes, there's a chance of overdosing them but by correlating the dosages of trace elements to calcium consumption, many folks seem to be having great success. That's how the ATI Essentials and the Red Sea ABCD systems work.

 

[Chris A.]

I had a icp done of my tank and the only element that was low was boron( I use the Red Sea colors ) I don’t do many water changes so this could be a way out for me, not saying it’s right or wrong but if it can keep my tank as healthy as water changes I’m all for it

 

[Chris A.]

Cool. I've got a spare 10 liter jug if you need it for solution #1. I'd definitely suggest the BRS slim 4 liter jugs for #2 and #3.

Thx for the offer but I found some 5l slim dosing jugs on aqua cave , they’re the exact volume for the 500ml bottles

 

[Chris A.]

Now I need one more dosing pump.

 

[dz6t]

Joe:
Your points are well taken.
Yes there are trace elements in all salt mix, but they vary dramatically from brand to brand.
People have success on all major brand of salt, which is an indicator that these elements may not be matter at all.

many these trace element in synthetic sea salt come from impurities of raw material.

But are there studies that show that trace elements are NOT essential? Or is this just an area that hasn't been researched?


I would guess that this is true of all trace elements at some concentration. That doesn't mean that the same trace elements aren't needed at lower concentrations.


Skepticism is certainly warranted here. And it's hard to argue with your success, Dong - you have beautiful tanks with gorgeous corals. But, if I'm correct, you do add trace elements in that you do water changes. My theory (and that of many others) is that water changes are an inefficient way to add trace elements - why not just add them directly? Yes, there's a chance of overdosing them but by correlating the dosages of trace elements to calcium consumption, many folks seem to be having great success. That's how the ATI Essentials and the Red Sea ABCD systems work.

 

[Zirky]

Great thread. Following.

 

[dz6t]

There are studies about trace elements in the ocean, but not much targeting coral growth.
Trace elements concentrations and composition vary dramatically from ocean depth, geographic location etc. They are not consistent through out the ocean. That means the concept of mimicking the natural sea water regarding trace element is fundamentally flawed.

Due to many trace elements are toxic at higher concentrations and some of them are actually from man made pollution, it is safer to just dose the micronutrients such as Iron and iodine.


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[dz6t]

Data published by University of Hawaii:

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[dz6t]

Lets examine another concept of dosing trace elements without water change:

Unless you are able to accurately test and dose individual trace elements, dosing premix commercial trace elements mix will elevates the elements that do not get consumed, then these will reach toxic level.

Water change is needed to correct (sort of, at best) the situation.

On the other hand, many trace elements will just precipitate out upon adding to the tank before they get diluted.







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[dz6t]

There is another reason why trace elements are promoted heavily, because those trace elements solutions are dirt cheap to make. The profit margin is so high that make movie theaters popcorn looks like a black friday bargain on clearance.


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