littlep93056
Non-member
off this subject Greg do you want some seahorse babies
BRS Annual propagation workshop at Greg's
- Thread starter Moe_K
- Start date
TheUltimateNoob
TheUltimateNoob
glad this was settled. who would've thought this thread would be this long. and moe was just trying to give us a heads up. haha.
objectfire
PatternMaster
Hi Everyone,
I would like to weigh in and express my opinion without getting flamed. I agree with others that having to monitoring the forums for a post is not a fair tactic, due to work constraints, if nothing else.
Greg and Moe, ask yourselves what you are trying to accomplish here? My read of your intent is to extend this offer to all frag newbies in the BRS membership?
If so, then follow the simplest plan that does not marginalize any elements of the membership. There has already been feedback from those who feel that they will be marginalized with the method proposed.
A simple solution would be:
Gather a list of interested newbies online before the next meeting. Add anyone else at the meeting to the list. Pick 10 people from the list at the meeting, then pick the rest for a standby list.
Problem solved in a fair and compassionate manner.
Kent
I would like to weigh in and express my opinion without getting flamed. I agree with others that having to monitoring the forums for a post is not a fair tactic, due to work constraints, if nothing else.
Greg and Moe, ask yourselves what you are trying to accomplish here? My read of your intent is to extend this offer to all frag newbies in the BRS membership?
If so, then follow the simplest plan that does not marginalize any elements of the membership. There has already been feedback from those who feel that they will be marginalized with the method proposed.
A simple solution would be:
Gather a list of interested newbies online before the next meeting. Add anyone else at the meeting to the list. Pick 10 people from the list at the meeting, then pick the rest for a standby list.
Problem solved in a fair and compassionate manner.
Kent
littlep93056
Non-member
i feel the same way unless you can be glued to your computer on a certain day & time you have no shoot at this great thing that greg is doing the raffle sound good at first but a hat draw would be the fairest thing as i posted earlier a tread just for it from now till friday 9pm would give everybody 5 days not 5 minutes if that, if done the way it looks like i offered to do it for the club
if i had to guess ,i would say only about 50% of the members (if that) could be online at the second they need to be
not to be rude but this is not being done fairly ! ! ! !
if i had to guess ,i would say only about 50% of the members (if that) could be online at the second they need to be
not to be rude but this is not being done fairly ! ! ! !
littlep93056
Non-member
well do the right thing to be fair to everybody
shearwater
Very Junior Member
Stay glued to my computer waiting for a notice? No way! Time to start my web crawler program that pings this page and searches for the words "Greg Hiller" and "coral" and "forum". When it finds them, it instantly calls my cell phone... or, is that against some policy?? J/K - I could, but won't!!
Deafasa
Well-Known Member
Okay, so people are saying this is grossly unfair. Here is what you do. Design and host (for as long as this seminar is given) the webpage and back end database where all interested parties can put in their name once and only once. Give Moe access (access will need to be changed depending on who is the BRS president at the time) so all he has to do is click a button and it will randomly pick ten names, and then generate emails to tell the lucky ten people as well as Greg. But wait, thats not all. Let's not forget that you must also give out your phone number and be on call 24 hours a day to input people's name who do not have access to the forum or can not get online during the signup window. Wait, what about those who are never online, how are they going to know to call or enter their name. Are you prepared to personally call every BRS member to ensure they get a fair shake? You could announce it at the meeting, but what about those members who couldn't make the meeting.
Is the above a joke, only partially. Is the above or below meant to be a flame, no.
You are asking the BRS officers to create a logistics nightmare for a seminar in someone's home. This seminar can, and will, fill up very quickly without taking drastic measures to ensure tons of people know about it. Is it fair that you didn't win the lottery when the numbers you play every week hit because you didn't get to the store before it closed to buy a ticket? Does the example have any relevance to the current discussion, yes. You couldn't get to someplace at the alloted time to execute an action. In the example it is getting to the store before closing time to purchase a lottery ticket. In context to this discussion it is being on line at a certain time to put your name in for an event. The two are not that dissimilar.
It is not the Officers responsibility to make sure every member has a chance to be one of the first ten people.
Because you are lobbying to put names in a hat this time, next time this event is run people will scream for that method again. What if no one comes forward to do it. It is left to the president of BRS, which I assume is an unpaid position, to then organize, and execute it.
After reading this thread I would be highly reluctant to offer to have a limited number of BRS members to my house for a seminar (granted, there is nothing in my tank anyone would want to see.) Even if it was just using my house for someone else to talk, the aggrevation of ensuring the fairness in the selection of those people to attend just isn't worth it.
No method of selection is fair to everyone. A better tactic may be to lobby for video taping the event (I believe that was mentioned somewhere) and then having that tape or DVD in the BRS library for members to borrow.
Is the above a joke, only partially. Is the above or below meant to be a flame, no.
You are asking the BRS officers to create a logistics nightmare for a seminar in someone's home. This seminar can, and will, fill up very quickly without taking drastic measures to ensure tons of people know about it. Is it fair that you didn't win the lottery when the numbers you play every week hit because you didn't get to the store before it closed to buy a ticket? Does the example have any relevance to the current discussion, yes. You couldn't get to someplace at the alloted time to execute an action. In the example it is getting to the store before closing time to purchase a lottery ticket. In context to this discussion it is being on line at a certain time to put your name in for an event. The two are not that dissimilar.
It is not the Officers responsibility to make sure every member has a chance to be one of the first ten people.
Because you are lobbying to put names in a hat this time, next time this event is run people will scream for that method again. What if no one comes forward to do it. It is left to the president of BRS, which I assume is an unpaid position, to then organize, and execute it.
After reading this thread I would be highly reluctant to offer to have a limited number of BRS members to my house for a seminar (granted, there is nothing in my tank anyone would want to see.) Even if it was just using my house for someone else to talk, the aggrevation of ensuring the fairness in the selection of those people to attend just isn't worth it.
No method of selection is fair to everyone. A better tactic may be to lobby for video taping the event (I believe that was mentioned somewhere) and then having that tape or DVD in the BRS library for members to borrow.
One Eye
former vp of pr
WOW!!!...GUYS, Chill out. Last year I missed the original post. I got in so late I didn't even bother putting my name on the list. After several days of watching the top 10 dropping out one by one I finaly added my name as a reserve. The night of the big event one more person dropped out and I was able to go.
Chill out, relax, lick a zooanthid or two and listen to some Pink Floyd. It will all work out just the way it's supposed too!
By the way Greg, I'll pay the price for your wife's cooking and a seat in the yard
Chill out, relax, lick a zooanthid or two and listen to some Pink Floyd. It will all work out just the way it's supposed too!
By the way Greg, I'll pay the price for your wife's cooking and a seat in the yard
The Jester2
Non-member
Hey Noob To tell the truth when I started to post my idea there where only 4 posts. I got called away, when I got back and hit post it showed up at 25. If the same idea showed up twicew then it must be a good one. With all the discusion I see on this no matter what gets decided someone won't be happy. "Buts that's life" as they say.
RobboT
--
Look everyone Im not trying to be an a** by arguing the point with you who think the system is unfair. I'm simply saying that (as many have said above) there is no way to be entirely fair to everyone in a 500 person organization so lets just go with what we know works and with what takes the least toll on our officers and BOD.
As I said in another thread, I love this group . . . it's supporters and it's critics . . . but please do not demean the hard work that people like Moe and Greg do by calling them unfair and making a spectacle of it. If you feel that the officers and BOD are being unfair then by all means, run for office in January and take my 20 or 30 hour a week non-paying job away from me. Anyone in the BRS is free to run for a position so they can work to bring in speakers, organize meetings, produce a newsletter, organize an international marine aquarium convention and beg for auction stuff. Oh yeah and administer and moderate an internet discussion board, deal with group buys and the LFS who think that Group Buys are unfair. I'm not trying to put the Officers and BOD up on a pedestal but I do hope that people realize that what the members see at meetings and at this site are the result of a hell of alot of work for which the only compensation is gratitude (and maybe a few beers during a tank move).
I try not to get my hackles up, I try to sit back but sometimes its tough. And FWIW I know that the BRS membership does not take the Officers and BOD for granted but sometimes it sure feels that way
Peace.
As I said in another thread, I love this group . . . it's supporters and it's critics . . . but please do not demean the hard work that people like Moe and Greg do by calling them unfair and making a spectacle of it. If you feel that the officers and BOD are being unfair then by all means, run for office in January and take my 20 or 30 hour a week non-paying job away from me. Anyone in the BRS is free to run for a position so they can work to bring in speakers, organize meetings, produce a newsletter, organize an international marine aquarium convention and beg for auction stuff. Oh yeah and administer and moderate an internet discussion board, deal with group buys and the LFS who think that Group Buys are unfair. I'm not trying to put the Officers and BOD up on a pedestal but I do hope that people realize that what the members see at meetings and at this site are the result of a hell of alot of work for which the only compensation is gratitude (and maybe a few beers during a tank move).
I try not to get my hackles up, I try to sit back but sometimes its tough. And FWIW I know that the BRS membership does not take the Officers and BOD for granted but sometimes it sure feels that way
Peace.
Scuba_Dave
Non-member
Yeesh!! No more suggestions from me...sorry...
OK, here is the link to last years thread. Yes I replied in 1 nanosecond
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186034&highlight=june
Read thru it, as One Eye said, a lot of people that signed up didnt end up going
Darren posted, what?? ALMOST A MONTH after the original post, and still ended up going.
The more experienced reefers, or those (like me) who have been to one, won't (can't) sign up
Moe busts his arse (as do the rest of the Officer's) as the Pres...don't give him grief. And Greg is More the generous to open his house to the club
This is a HOBBY...relax & enjoy..
OK, here is the link to last years thread. Yes I replied in 1 nanosecond
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186034&highlight=june
Read thru it, as One Eye said, a lot of people that signed up didnt end up going
Darren posted, what?? ALMOST A MONTH after the original post, and still ended up going.
The more experienced reefers, or those (like me) who have been to one, won't (can't) sign up
Moe busts his arse (as do the rest of the Officer's) as the Pres...don't give him grief. And Greg is More the generous to open his house to the club
This is a HOBBY...relax & enjoy..
joefitz
Non-member
Wow. I can't believe this is still an active thread. I just want to back up RobboT's comments on this one. The volunteers running the BRS do so much for all of us. I understand the desire to have every opportunity be "fair" but as Moe stated in one of his first follow-ups, no process is going to be fair to every member.
You can argue that one process may be more fair than another but none of that takes into consideration the other incredibly important factor that people need to consider -- even more important than being "fair", at least in my opinion -- the time requirements placed on the officers.
These guys already spend so much time running this organization that there are many situations when the 'easiest' method for them to implement is really the only realistic option. As the organization grows, hopefully we'll be able to get more people involved and therefore spread the load out while at the same time being able to handle even more things...but until that happens, I think we really need to cut these guys some slack and just go with the flow.
I know some of you are probably thinking, how hard is it to implement some of the suggestions people have posted here...the answer is probably not that hard and it may not even take that much time. But you're missing the point -- even having to follow this thread, review the suggestions, and then implement some other idea...well, even that "minimal" time is often just too much extra time. Sometimes, five minutes is too much extra time.
I think the BRS members need to make one of their goals to reduce the time committment requirements from the officers, or at least try not to increase them. I appreciate that some people offered to help manage some of the suggested alternatives, and I think that shows the kind of consideration I'm talking about here...but even that involves more time on the officers part, especially when you step back and think that these same issues are often brought up every time such an opportunity comes up.
Eventually, maybe there will be a committee whose job it is to run some of the things the officers are stuck dealing with right now...auctions, raffles, and special events such as this fragging session. That's where I think this discussion would be appropriate. But we aren't there quite yet.
If you want to make the BRS better, find a way to volunteer -- and make it as easy on the officers as possible; remember, the goal is to reduce their burden not increase it. One of the ways I'm hoping to be able to contribute is by finding a way to identify and structure volunteer opportunities so people can get involved more easily.
You can argue that one process may be more fair than another but none of that takes into consideration the other incredibly important factor that people need to consider -- even more important than being "fair", at least in my opinion -- the time requirements placed on the officers.
These guys already spend so much time running this organization that there are many situations when the 'easiest' method for them to implement is really the only realistic option. As the organization grows, hopefully we'll be able to get more people involved and therefore spread the load out while at the same time being able to handle even more things...but until that happens, I think we really need to cut these guys some slack and just go with the flow.
I know some of you are probably thinking, how hard is it to implement some of the suggestions people have posted here...the answer is probably not that hard and it may not even take that much time. But you're missing the point -- even having to follow this thread, review the suggestions, and then implement some other idea...well, even that "minimal" time is often just too much extra time. Sometimes, five minutes is too much extra time.
I think the BRS members need to make one of their goals to reduce the time committment requirements from the officers, or at least try not to increase them. I appreciate that some people offered to help manage some of the suggested alternatives, and I think that shows the kind of consideration I'm talking about here...but even that involves more time on the officers part, especially when you step back and think that these same issues are often brought up every time such an opportunity comes up.
Eventually, maybe there will be a committee whose job it is to run some of the things the officers are stuck dealing with right now...auctions, raffles, and special events such as this fragging session. That's where I think this discussion would be appropriate. But we aren't there quite yet.
If you want to make the BRS better, find a way to volunteer -- and make it as easy on the officers as possible; remember, the goal is to reduce their burden not increase it. One of the ways I'm hoping to be able to contribute is by finding a way to identify and structure volunteer opportunities so people can get involved more easily.
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