Dinos? Cyano? Something else?

[jfoahs04]

I’ve been dealing with a stubborn/persistent but minor (so far) bit of brown algae (hopefully algae) for the past 3 weeks or so. I don’t have a microscope, and I’m hoping someone here might be able to visually ID?

Tank is 3.5 months old and I had a small diatom outbreak 2 weeks in. Using natural sea water collected in Winthrop (0tds RODI for top offs). The “algae” tends to diminish a little overnight and return midday (making me want to rule diatoms out). It’s been like this for about 3 weeks and sticks to the substrate only. Nothing on the rocks.

Tank is a EVO 13.5 running an AI Prime 16HD (Saxby settings). Mixed reef (softies, LPS, and few montis), 4 Astrea Snails, 3 blue leg hermits, 1 nassarius, 1 skunk cleaner, a tailspot blenny, and a small DaVinci clown.

Params:
Ca-420
Mg-1285
Alk-7
No3-<1
Po4- .02 ppm or less
salinity- 1.025
Temp- 78

I’m doing biweekly water changes of 30% and siphoning each time. I’m also manually removing it a few times per week. It pulls up relatively easily with my tongs. Sort of staying the course until I can figure it out.

Also, running filter floss, Chemipure Blue (2x nano packets) and bio media in chamber 1.

I’ve had 3 reefs and I don’t recall having this before. I’ve had plenty of diatoms, hair, bubble, and other algae before, but this one is different.

trying to figure out the best course of action. Thoughts on whether we’re looking at Dino’s, diatoms, cyano, something else? Thanks!

 

[stingythingy45]

Do you feed the corals? Reef Roids, Reef Chili..ect?

 

[jfoahs04]

Do you feed the corals? Reef Roids, Reef Chili..ect?

No. I feed the fish once daily. One day I’ll do NLS pellets and a pinch of flakes, the next I’ll do a mix of frozen brine and mysis (the mysis is gut loaded with spirulina)- about 1/8 cube of each per day. I used to take a little bit of tank water to thaw the frozen and then pour it all into the tank, but for the last two weeks I’ve been thawing, pouring into a brine net over the sink to strain a bit, then dipping the net into the tank.

 

[skippylou]

I had something very similar happen a few months back, with the same description of getting worse midday and better at night which had me worried it was dinos too but under the microscope it surely looked like diatoms. Just not diatoms presenting the way I remember. Always on the sand only like you noted too with some wispy strands in parts of it.

Got a pic under midday lighting with a bit less blue?

Attaching the microscope photo in case you do go that route.

 

[skippylou]

Should have mentioned, floss + stirring the sand bed spots up a bit and chemipure blue seemed to do the trick over the course of a few weeks.

 

[jfoahs04]

Thanks, that’s basically what I’m trying to do. Changing the floss every 3 days, siphoning/stirring, and running chemipure blue. So we will see. It’s largely stayed the same (really not an “outbreak”), maybe even a little improvement.

Here’s a pic under whites, and another from this AM with just ambient light:

 

[skippylou]

Can't say it looks "identical" but the way you describe everything it's spot on the same.

 

[jfoahs04]

Thanks. I'll keep stirring the sandbed and maybe step the WCs up to weekly. Hopefully that'll do the trick.

 

[jfoahs04]

So a quick update on this. I’m completely confused. Here’s what it looks like under 100% whites and nothing else:

Is it possible that this is just GHA but is mostly restricted to the sand bed? It’s not slimy at all, it’s very green under white light, and it doesn’t break up and reform when shaken and strained (3rd image, it never separated from rock). I intentionally let that “tuft” grow out over the past few days just go get a better idea of what it would look like after a bit. I expected bubbles and a slimier texture for Dinos or Cyano. This just looks and feels like classic GHA to me.

My Nitrates and Phosphates are nearly non-existent which is why I’m not 100% sold on the GHA. It’s generally unusual to get GHA solely on the sand bed, but the sand bed is the only “new” part of my 3 month old tank (rocks are from old, established systems and covered in coralline and other algae). I should note that my CUC has been eating this for about 2 weeks with no problems or changes in behavior.

Regardless, I have a microscope on the way and I’m over feeding to bump phosphates and nitrates because that needs to change no matter what. I also pulled my Chemi Pure Blue and replaced it with activated carbon in case it is Dinos and releasing toxins.

Thoughts? Has anyone experienced anything similar?

 

[ChrisV]

Can I convince you to try Vibrant? I used some last summer when my tank had similar growth. I did a bunch of things, but I'm sort of convinced that vibrant helped.

 

[jfoahs04]

Did you have problems with Cyano afterwards? That's the one recurring theme I've seen with people who have used Vibrant.

I'd be open to it even though I typically try to go as natural as possible with these things. Before I go the chemical route, I'd like to get an ID under the scope (which is coming in on Tuesday) first.

 

[ChrisV]

No cyano at all, but I still routinely dose it. I had both snotty dinoflagellates and the algae you have. I used the Dr. Tim's dino treatment protocol and this stuff took over afterwords. I started dosing vibrant and threw in a couple of chestnut turbos and it cleaned it right up. The water is clear and the rocks are clean. Coraline algae is growing, corals can't speak but don't seem unhappy.

It's kind of a controversial product that gets people fired up, but it works for my tank.

 

[jfoahs04]

Gotcha, thanks. I don't have strong feelings either way about Vibrant (or any other chemical treatment), though I tend to try and go without as long as possible (especially in a new tank). If I can positively ID as GHA under the scope and manual removal doesn't seem to work, I might go that route.

 

[ChrisV]

Supposedly it's a biological additive (a microbial community) not a chemical additive. Not sure how much it really matters. The people who make it play their cards close to the chest.

 

[jfoahs04]

True, it looks like this is the breakdown:

• 95% Cultured Bacteria Blend
• 1% Amino Acids (Aspartic Acid)
• 0.5% Vinegar - This is used as the preservative
• 3.5% Other Ingredients (RO/DI Water)

 

[ChrisV]

True, it looks like this is the breakdown:

• 95% Cultured Bacteria Blend
• 1% Amino Acids (Aspartic Acid)
• 0.5% Vinegar - This is used as the preservative
• 3.5% Other Ingredients (RO/DI Water)

People on the internet LOVE to speculate about "what's really in there." It gets...heated.

 

[jfoahs04]

People on the internet LOVE to speculate about "what's really in there." It gets...heated.

I’m noticing that. I broke my previous reef down in 2016, so right about when it came on the market. I’ve never really seen the debates until now as I start to research it. Some pretty hot takes out there.

*edit* did NOT mean to say “precious reef reef.” That was a late night auto correct.

 

[tkyee98]

Looks like hair algae. I had similar issue not too long ago. Up the clean up crew stay consistent with water changes and physically remove what you can. Taking some sand out with it is fine, it happens and sand is relatively cheap to replace. Just by $0.02

 

[jfoahs04]

Looks like hair algae. I had similar issue not too long ago. Up the clean up crew stay consistent with water changes and physically remove what you can. Taking some sand out with it is fine, it happens and sand is relatively cheap to replace. Just by $0.02

Thanks. That’s how I’ll have at it once I can confirm it’s GHA. If that doesn’t work, I’d consider Vibrant.

 

[jfoahs04]

I looked under the microscope and it's definitely not dinos. Looks (to me) like GHA (pretty similar to photos I've seen in some other forums) with some diatoms in the mix.

The good news is that it's definitely started to slow down. For the past three weeks I had been stirring and manually removing every single day. There were some dinos in there (along with the GHA and probably diatoms), I'm certain of it. There was some stringy brown slime in the rear chambers, on my filter floss, and a little in the tank (complete with bubbles on it). It's no longer there. Early last week after reading zeros for po3 and no3, I pulled my Chemi Pure Blue, replaced it with good ol' GAC and started reading po3 and no3 within two days. There is no sign of dinos at this point and the GHA isn't growing like it was. Diatoms are steady too - I haven't touched the sand bed since Friday and they're not any worse.

I don't see any reason to change things at the moment. I'm due for a water change, but I'm not collecting (this is natural sea water that I collect in Winthrop) again until we've had a few days with no rain. So I'm guessing that'll likely wait until this weekend or early next week. I'd also say that Chemi Pure Blue is probably too effective for a new tank. Especially a nano like this one. I'm absolutely amazed at how quickly my nutrients were zeroed after starting it. So for the foreseeable future, I'll stick to the GAC.