Disgusted with survival from LFS

JeanR

Well-Known Member
BRS Member
Am curious to know where people are having the greatest success with buying fish.

My experience with LFS in the greater Boston area is most bad. It seems like all the LFS has the same strategy: get a big order in Thursday/Friday and hope to sell out over the weekend before the fish die. When I buy from a LFS on the weekend I loose 75% by Tuesday/Wednesday. The exception to this is captive bred or from a BRS member, which always do well in my established tank.

To give a recent example, I recently paid $100 for 5 fish from a LFS in Southern NH I will not mention by name. Nothing fancy, your common variety clown fish, Benghai cardinal, flasher wrasse, fire fish. By Tuesday only one fish (the ocellaris clown captive bred) was alive, everything else did not make it. I hatch baby brine, I feed white worms, I feed 3 times per day, I bend over backwards to care for my fish - very little that is not captive bred survived.

Oddly, over the last 2 years my best survival has come from Aquatic Treasures in Watertown - the place is a total cesspool but with low turnover of wildlife because not a lot people shop there. Anything that can survive 2 weeks there has a 100% survival rate in my tank. Many of my longest lived fish came from there.

To be honest, I do not quarantine and have never lost very few fish from overt disease. I am a big believer is life foods and feed a ton in my display - fish either seem to love it or perish. I have have not lost "hard species" like mardarins, pipefish or scooter dragonets which all love my tank.

Are other members have the same experience? Amy curious to know what works for others in the area.
 
The health of fish in the supply chain seems to be much worse than it used to be. Many fish are dying of bacterial infections, i.e. not ich and velvet that most people worry about and are obvious.

QT'ing and treating with antibiotics prophylactically will probably help a lot, but sometimes a fish is too sick when you purchase it and it will die no matter what you do. And usually these bacterial infections have no visible symptoms until it is too late.

I know that LFS and online vendors share the same wholesalers, but that doesn't mean you can expect the same quality fish from any vendor. Some vendors will get preference for the best specimens over others.

I've never lost a single fish from Live Aquaria, but I have lost plenty in QT from LFS. And Live Aquaria's 14-day guarantee is a hell of a lot better than the 24 hours that seems to be common at LFS these days. 24 hours is basically worthless.
 
I have had great success with LiveAquaria as well. Close to 100% survival rate I would say even outside of divers den.

I also have the same experience with a LFS where I took a fish home and the next morning was sand surfing. $80 gone on that particular fish.

My suggestion would be to pay for the fish and have the fish store hold them for a week. If they aren't willing to do that then maybe consider a different LFS or online instead?
 
The amount of water fish shipped with plays a critical part of fish survival.

All retailers pay for shipping when buying from wholesalers. So a retailer can ask and pay for better shipping condition. But that adds a lot of cost and a retailer may not even realize that is an option. Many retailers want the wholesaler to cramp as much as fish and coral in a box, especially some wholesalers have flat rate shipping per box.

Then the next critical step is to acclimate fish upon arrival. Enough said about that step.




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As for Liveaquaria, their 14 days guarantee and free shipping is hard to beat.
They can do that because:
1. Large volume sales. Better price from wholesale, they use Quality Marine.

2. Higher mark up, the profit margins allows them to do that.

3. Deep discount from UPS. The discount they get can blow your mind. Also allows them to ship the fish to you with more water and better packaging.




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That is why I order fish for myself from Liveaquaria too instead from wholesale.


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Two places (outside members like you said) I have had success with is Fish Nook in Acton. They have held a fish for me for 2 weeks to make sure it is eating pellets.

Reef Junkeez. I have gotten 1 fish from them. Very healthy, very happy. I think if the health is questionable they refuse to sell it.

You will pay more at Fish Nook. For the classroom tanks and my tank I have gotten probably 15 fish from the Fish Nook. Only time they died is when I left the school and a new order came in. I picked it up the day it shipped and should have refused the fish... they gave me the option, but I figured I would give it a try. That tank later got nuked by my switching schools/neglect/ich etc.
 
As for Liveaquaria, their 14 days guarantee and free shipping is hard to beat.
They can do that because:
1. Large volume sales. Better price from wholesale, they use Quality Marine.

2. Higher mark up, the profit margins allows them to do that.

3. Deep discount from UPS. The discount they get can blow your mind. Also allows them to ship the fish to you with more water and better packaging.

4. If you order from regular Liveaquaria instead of DD, the fish you ordered got shipped directly from wholesale to you, hence skip one step of stress and less chance to get infection.



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Pricing of fish seems to be very weird. I would agree that Live Aquaria seems to be more expensive, but I am not sure that's true because I've never looked at it in a systematic way.

They often have fish that are much, much cheaper than the LFS or other online vendors. But with other fish they are more expensive.

I'm not sure what drives the differences at certain times but it's weird when one vendor has a GORGEOUS Pintail Fairy Wrasse specimen for $80, and other vendors are selling them for $200 at the same time.

I've bought fish for $7 from LA that sell for $20 everywhere else.
 
Two places (outside members like you said) I have had success with is Fish Nook in Acton. They have held a fish for me for 2 weeks to make sure it is eating pellets.

Reef Junkeez. I have gotten 1 fish from them. Very healthy, very happy. I think if the health is questionable they refuse to sell it.

You will pay more at Fish Nook. For the classroom tanks and my tank I have gotten probably 15 fish from the Fish Nook. Only time they died is when I left the school and a new order came in. I picked it up the day it shipped and should have refused the fish... they gave me the option, but I figured I would give it a try. That tank later got nuked by my switching schools/neglect/ich etc.

Agree, take care of fish is a lot of work and cost. It is a good idea to pay more for better quality fish.




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Pricing of fish seems to be very weird. I would agree that Live Aquaria seems to be more expensive, but I am not sure that's true because I've never looked at it in a systematic way.

They often have fish that are much, much cheaper than the LFS or other online vendors. But with other fish they are more expensive.

I'm not sure what drives the differences at certain times but it's weird when one vendor has a GORGEOUS Pintail Fairy Wrasse specimen for $80, and other vendors are selling them for $200 at the same time.

I've bought fish for $7 from LA that sell for $20 everywhere else.

Price can fluctuate depending on season, availability and the amount of care stores put into it.


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The only LFS I have ever been impressed with was Oceans in Glass in Salem, NH. It broke my heart when they closed due to the owner's personal problems.

If you bought from the other LFS in Salem, that is a big problem. I don't support that place at all. I don't step foot in there because the way the livestock is treated makes me sick. The fish are not healthy in any way. I don't buy supplies or anything, and it is too bad because it is very close to me.
 
I have not been to Tropic Isle is a long, long time. I always remembered them as being very expensive, but usually had good stuff.

Anyone have any recent experience there?
 
Two places (outside members like you said) I have had success with is Fish Nook in Acton. They have held a fish for me for 2 weeks to make sure it is eating pellets.

Reef Junkeez. I have gotten 1 fish from them. Very healthy, very happy. I think if the health is questionable they refuse to sell it.

You will pay more at Fish Nook. For the classroom tanks and my tank I have gotten probably 15 fish from the Fish Nook. Only time they died is when I left the school and a new order came in. I picked it up the day it shipped and should have refused the fish... they gave me the option, but I figured I would give it a try. That tank later got nuked by my switching schools/neglect/ich etc.

+1 to Fish Nook
 
TI just moved a little way down Rte 9. Got a lemon butterfly from them, which is doing spectacular and even eats from my fingers!
 
There is another factor that cause low survival rate of saltwater fish bought from stores or online, that is 90% of saltwater fish imported into US were caught using cyanide (according to publication by National Geographic, 2016) despite it is illegal to import fish that caught using cyanide.

Quote from NaGeo:
“"The name of the game for those in the trade is 'sell the fish as quickly as possible' because then you’re passing the risk on to the next buyer,” said Rene Umberger, the director of For the Fishes.”

So the LFS and hobbyists are both victims of this horrible practice oversea.




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There is another factor that cause low survival rate of saltwater fish bought from stores or online, that is 90% of saltwater fish imported into US were caught using cyanide (according to publication by National Geographic, 2016) despite it is illegal to import fish that caught using cyanide.

Quote from NaGeo:
“"The name of the game for those in the trade is 'sell the fish as quickly as possible' because then you’re passing the risk on to the next buyer,” said Rene Umberger, the director of For the Fishes.”

So the LFS and hobbyists are both victims of this horrible practice oversea.




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I thought they found the cyanide test to be unreliable and give false positives?
 
The test never implemented besides unreliable and not practical.


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