Need advice on new reef tank

[Dave T]

Hello! I live out in Manchester, MA. I have recently decided to add a reef tank to my home. I had many many freshwater tanks as a kid, and a couple basic marine tanks. That was many years ago, and the last couple days of googling have shown me that there have been massive changes in the hobby!

So I am planning on straight into the deep end of the pool and put in a fairly advanced reef tank. Because of my inexperience, I'm going to outsource much of the build. I'm meeting with an installer day after tomorrow. I could really use advice on what questions to ask to make sure that this installer is someone I want to work with. Clearly, this will be the beginning of a long relationship, I'm hoping for it to be a beautiful friendship.

At this point, I don't have many specifics in mind. The tank will be around 150 gallons. I plan on having a sump with refugium and all the other equipment in the basement. Probably an auto water changer. LED lights. Lots of soft coral, LPS (I think). I haven't decided about SPS. My understanding is that it needs lots of bright light, and I'm not sure if I want the tank to be too bright, due to the room it will be in.

So any advice on what I should do, or how I should vet the installer?

Thanks.

- Dave

 

[Errol]

Depends on how handy you are, how much you want to do yourself, and of course your budget. I don’t have much experience with such builds and wanted to be sure it was done correctly since I plan to have it a long time. There are many companies out there who can do it for you. I had a 180 gallon Red Sea Reefer installed by Tropic Isle Aquarium. They delivered, carried it in, set it up, stress tested it all over a weekend. That was 2 years ago. They also set up my apex dos and trident. And they have an in-house maintenance service if you want. I was very pleased with the service.

 

[ChrisV]

I think the best way to vet an installer is to see some his work, preferably in person if possible.

You can ask questions all day long but nothing beats SEEING a person's tank.

If I were hiring a company to set up a tank here are a few things I would want to know:

1) Do they prefer live rock or dry rock? There is no right or wrong answer here, but there are caveats to either route. Dry rock tanks tend to take longer to mature and can have a more protracted "ugly phase" that everyone will try to convince you is normal/accepted. Live rock tanks tend to mature faster but you will inevitably have some hitch hikers, some of which will be not ideal, that everyone will try to convince you are normal/acceptable. Both approaches have their benefits and drawbacks.

2) What is the company's philosophy on pest management? Do they dip all corals? How seriously do they take coral eating pests? To put it bluntly, I am perfectly comfortable accepting the loss and throwing away a new coral without it touching my tank if I see a coral eating pest come off when I dip the coral. Anyone who tells you that things like acropora eating flatworms or montipora eating nudibranchs are really no big deal is being dishonest because they don't have a good way to get rid of them.

3) How do they manage quarantine of fish (assuming they provide all the fish for the display). There is a lot to be discussed here, but suffice it to say that it is beneficial if they quarantine fish for you and bring them to the tank.

4) What testing will the automate and monitor? These days calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, and pH are routinely monitored electronically with results posted to a web server. Will they keep track of this for you? This will require you to have an aquarium controller and some high end gear, but it's worth it.

5) what is their policy on you becoming more involved? Do they prefer to be the exclusive provider of corals? Can you come to local frag swaps and buy something you like, or is that a deal breaker for them?

6) how do they handle their vacation time/sick time? Do they have multiple employees?

7) I hate to say this, but if I was going to have someone in my house weekly, I'd want to know their COVID vaccination status.

 

[Dave T]

Thanks for the advice. Very helpful!

They are telling me that they normally run the lines between the tank and sump using some kind of flexible piping. Should I be concerned about that? Most builds I've looked at seem to use rigid PVC. Flexible would obviously be easier though. The run between my tank and sump will be about 30-40 feet, with the sump in the basement and the tank on the first floor.

I never heard of dipping, I had to look that up. I'll ask about that, as well as quarantining.

I definitely want an aquarium controller. Any recommendations? Ideally, I'd want something that monitors and controls virtually everything. I'd probably say that price is not a deterrent on that selection. I'm a software developer, so something with an API I could access to do things like custom logging/reporting, and alerts, would be good. I did some research on controllers, I don't see anything that monitors nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia. That would be good to have too.

I definitely want to be able to buy my own fish and corals, but will want their advice on what is compatible. And I think I would like to get into growing my own frags. I won't have a frag tank though. Do people grow frags in their sump?

They do have many employees, which is good.

I will ask about Covid status, although I'm less concerned than some right now, because my wife and I are fully boosted, and just had covid last month.

 

[MikeG]

I definitely want an aquarium controller. Any recommendations? Ideally, I'd want something that monitors and controls virtually everything. I'd probably say that price is not a deterrent on that selection. I'm a software developer, so something with an API I could access to do things like custom logging/reporting, and alerts, would be good. I did some research on controllers, I don't see anything that monitors nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia. That would be good to have too.

Ammonia, nitrite and for many nitrate are only measured for the initial cycle and pretty much arent measured again unless you suspect you had a large die off of something. Really not a market for anyone to automate these as far as I am aware.

 

[Dave T]

Ammonia, nitrite and for many nitrate are only measured for the initial cycle and pretty much arent measured again unless you suspect you had a large die off of something. Really not a market for anyone to automate these as far as I am aware.

Huh. I did not know that. I thought that was something to monitor for the life of the aquarium, to make sure it's in balance.

So I found out a couple more things. They would do an acrylic aquarium. From my research, I was leaning towards glass, but I also understand the advantages of acrylic. I'm not really asking for advice on that, there are already plenty of discussions I can read, and I know there are strong opinions on both sides.

They'd use a Neptune Apex controller. I would appreciate advice on that I know many prefer the GHL Profilux.

I did request to see some of their builds, as per the excellent suggestion from @ChrisV. They said I couldn't see anything in a private home, but I asked for them to ask. I would think many people would be happy to show off their setup.

 

[Cpage101]

@BiGGiePauls33 and @Chris A. both run the GHL they may be able to advise on this

 

[rock-n-reef]

I did request to see some of their builds, as per the excellent suggestion from @ChrisV. They said I couldn't see anything in a private home, but I asked for them to ask. I would think many people would be happy to show off their setup.

I would think so as well. But given the covid situation, not everyone will be okay with people visiting their homes. Ask if they could provide some referrals to whom you can talk to or preferably video chat to look at their build.

They can claim all they want, but proof is in the pudding. And if they can't show it, I'll be very skeptic.

Btw, there are few club sponsors that does tank setup / maintenance service. Check out the sponsor forum --> https://bostonreefers.org/forums/index.php?forums/-/list#brs-sponsor-forums.3

 

[MikeG]

You're going to find opinions on controllers just like aquarium material, I think. I have always used Apex and have no complaints.

 

[Dave T]

For Apex, I saw people saying that they get out of calibration and can be less reliable.

 

[Dave T]

I would think so as well. But given the covid situation, not everyone will be okay with people visiting their homes. Ask if they could provide some referrals to whom you can talk to or preferably video chat to look at their build.

They can claim all they want, but proof is in the pudding. And if they can't show it, I'll be very skeptic.

Btw, there are few club sponsors that does tank setup / maintenance service. Check out the sponsor forum --> https://bostonreefers.org/forums/index.php?forums/-/list#brs-sponsor-forums.3

Good point about Covid. I didn't think of that. But there are ways to do a safe visit... These people manage over 500 aquariums, so I'd think they know their stuff. But I agree it would be nice to check out some of their work.

Any sponsors in particular that you recommend or know that do installs? There are quite a few sponsors, most of whom don't seem to do that.

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

I believer that @All Things Aquatic, @Blue Light Aquatics , @BackwoodsReefs , @Gaia_live , @LoveTheReef , @N_E_M_O , @WetPets and OSA all do installs and maintenance. There may be others as well.

 

[Zirky]

I live in Gloucester. Your welcome to come by and checkout my system anytime. Just to see things up and running. I’m not the most experienced reefer but I can share all my mistakes. (Long list)

 

[Dave T]

I believer that @All Things Aquatic, @Blue Light Aquatics , @BackwoodsReefs , @Gaia_live , @LoveTheReef , @N_E_M_O , @WetPets and OSA all do installs and maintenance. There may be others as well.

Thanks! If any of you reefers mentioned above are interested in my project, please PM me.

 

[Dave T]

I live in Gloucester. Your welcome to come by and checkout my system anytime. Just to see things up and running. I’m not the most experienced reefer but I can share all my mistakes. (Long list)

Love to. I will PM you to set something up!

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

I run ghl equipment along with @Chris A. @Phinfan @this is me and a few others that I can't think of currently.

 

[ChrisV]

Thanks for the advice. Very helpful!

Happy to give my two cents!

They are telling me that they normally run the lines between the tank and sump using some kind of flexible piping. Should I be concerned about that? Most builds I've looked at seem to use rigid PVC. Flexible would obviously be easier though. The run between my tank and sump will be about 30-40 feet, with the sump in the basement and the tank on the first floor.

30-40 feet is a long run! There are pros and cons to soft plumbing vs hard plumbing. I'd be a little skeptical about doing this with vinyl hose. Have you considered "spa flex" flexible PVC? Maybe someone here with more experience with basement sumps can chime in. Mine have never been more than 40 inches away.

I never heard of dipping, I had to look that up. I'll ask about that, as well as quarantining.

A LOT has happened in the past two decades in this area. Several species of coral eating pests have emerged in the hobby. For example, acropora eating flatworms are so bad and so hard to get rid of that you basically have to get rid of all your acropora until they starve. There are similar species that go after montipora and zoanthids. This is a really big deal in my opinion.

I definitely want an aquarium controller. Any recommendations? Ideally, I'd want something that monitors and controls virtually everything. I'd probably say that price is not a deterrent on that selection. I'm a software developer, so something with an API I could access to do things like custom logging/reporting, and alerts, would be good. I did some research on controllers, I don't see anything that monitors nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia. That would be good to have too.

As other have said, ammonia and nitrite are really only relevant in the first month. Don't have the most current version of the apex, but I have two of the older generations. I've been using the apex since like 2010 and it does what I need. I think it's the most commonly used controller, which means parts are easy to get and more people can help when it gets screwed up.

I definitely want to be able to buy my own fish and corals, but will want their advice on what is compatible. And I think I would like to get into growing my own frags. I won't have a frag tank though. Do people grow frags in their sump?

Sure! You can put a little light in your sump area and grow out some frags! We have a really great culture of local reef keepers selling aquacultured frags to other club members at really great prices. It's my favorite way to get coral. As a bonus you get to meet a lot of cool reef tank people in our area. We also have an annual club frag swap and sale.

They do have many employees, which is good.

If they have many employees, my question is the opposite: will the same person be taking care of your tank each week? How many tanks does that person manage?

I will ask about Covid status, although I'm less concerned than some right now, because my wife and I are fully boosted, and just had covid last month.

Sounds reasonable. With a kid that's too young to be vaccinated I tend to err on the side or paranoia.

I would never be willing to entrust a person to do something so substantial without seeing numerous examples of their work. They could even have the maintenance guy zoom you from the client house while he is there for a check in. As was said above, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

As for acrylic tanks, the biggest plus is that they are very light weight, the biggest minus is that if you look at them the wrong way, they scratch. No acrylic tanks for me, but to each his own. They are not at all bad. My issue is that many of the algae in our tanks are calcified encrusting algae and therefore they only come off with a razor blade. Try that move with an acrylic tank and you will be crying into your beer.

 

[Chris A.]

So if you are a techy already , you’ll love the ghl over the apex. It operates more like a computer , apex is way more user friendly. I had a bad experience with apex so I went to ghl. So far the P4 hasn’t missed a beat. I guess it’s a preference
Maybe watch some setup videos from ghl and some from apex and see what you like more.

 

[Dave T]

Thanks everyone!

So they are recommending a pro clear sump. They have them in stock. I looked at them and they have two ports for the incoming lines. And they use socks. How often do you have to clean the socks? I also came across roller mat filters, which seem more better!

And I've been reading about sump plumbing, and the Durso, Herbie, and Bean Animal configurations. BA sounds good to me because of the redundancy. What do people think? Other than redundancy, I want the display tank to be totally silent, or nearly so.

 

[MarkSzy]

I left the hobby right when the APEX was really getting to be the thing so I went back with it on my new tank. The amount of different controllers and adapters you can get it was made me go stay with it.

as far as the plumbing goes for that far of a run you need to think about temperature loss between sump and display. I know they make insulation for rigid pipe but I not sure how well it would work on flex.