Quarantine medication

mrcote1

Non-member
Ive never quarantined before but on my new setup im going to start doing everything the right way. I got prazipro, seachem paraguard and seachem cupramine. Can I use these meds all at the same time or do I have to do them one at a time? I plan on medicating all fish with all medications and quarantining for about 4 or 5 weeks in a permanent 20g setup
 
Wow thanks, tons of good info! Im thinking i wasted money on the seachem paraguard. I havent seen anyone mention it being good for quarantine but I saw it had anti bacterial applications
 
All I use is Chloroquine Phosphate and API General Cure. You dose the CP one time and then add 2 doses of the General Cure 5 days apart. This will treat crypt, velvet, brook, flukes, and worms.

If you have a bacterial problem, you can also dose antibiotics with the CP. Copper doesn't allow as much flexibility.
 
This is not my area of expertise, but it is for HumbleFish at R2R (in the links above).

According to them, you shouldn't use CP for certain fish:

"** Based upon anecdotal experience (mine and others), DO NOT USE CP on Anthias, Wrasses or Hippo Tangs. For the time being, chelated copper (exs. Coppersafe, Copper Power) is the best alternative to use on these species."

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

I have used Cupramine for wrasses without any issues - but any time you give medication you could overdose, send an already sick fish over the edge, etc. I would personally use Cupramine for the right indication for the aforementioned fish.
 
Yea I thought about getting CP but I love Wrasse so ill just use prazipro and cupramine. Im glad the link for that was posted or i would have never know
 
You can do both. Copper for wrasse, CP for everything else. Scale less fish (puffer, eel) can't tolerate copper. Like I've said, I have used CP to treat infected fish and treat in QT. It's much easier on the fish. Copper is poison.
 
Have you ever used the seachem paraguard? It claims to also work on ich and bacterial infections but cant find anyone online whos really used it and posted results
 
You can do both. Copper for wrasse, CP for everything else. Scale less fish (puffer, eel) can't tolerate copper. Like I've said, I have used CP to treat infected fish and treat in QT. It's much easier on the fish. Copper is poison.

I agree with everything except the last sentence here - but I am not saying you are necessarily wrong either. Cupramine is a non-chelated form of copper, and my understanding is that this form of copper is non-toxic at the therapeutic dosing concentrations recommended. Of course overdosing almost anything regardless of relative toxicity is likely to be deadly. But I think that your point of copper being poison is based off of the older chelated forms which displayed toxicity even at therapeutic doses.

I have used Cupramine without issues on all of my fish (I don't have any fish that can't tolerate copper) and I have had most of my fish for over 5 years. I have personally not used CP, but it certainly seems to be a much better option for ease of use, relative toxicity, and peace of mind for most fish that aren't intolerant to it, and particularly so for fish intolerant to copper.

If you have information you can provide that contradicts this I would be interested in reading it and would appreciate you passing it along.
 
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Have you ever used the seachem paraguard? It claims to also work on ich and bacterial infections but cant find anyone online whos really used it and posted results

I have Paraguard but I decided not to use it. People with more knowledge on the topic than I have (HumbleFish included) have told me it's not that effective. I typically do PraziPro first - unless I observe something that would warrant using Cupramine first - and then Cupramine. Then I observe for a couple more weeks to see if anything else is necessary. I also try to buy fish from quality sources which reduce the need to use anything but those two prophylactic treatments.
 
Awesome, thank you! And what do you do for your cleanup crew, shrimp and anemones? For coral i have lugols and coral revive ill treat with then quarantine for 1 month. Is there anything i can medicate inverts with (cleaner shrimp, rbta and cleanup crew) or is the only option to leave them in a fishless tank and wait it out
 
Awesome, thank you! And what do you do for your cleanup crew, shrimp and anemones? For coral i have lugols and coral revive ill treat with then quarantine for 1 month. Is there anything i can medicate inverts with (cleaner shrimp, rbta and cleanup crew) or is the only option to leave them in a fishless tank and wait it out

To my knowledge, the only foolproof option is to QT fishless for ~11 weeks. This is the length of time required for ich to die without a viable host.
 
What can it attached too? No hard surfaces. In theory it could be in the water the anemone takes up, but ich in its free swimming stage cannot live long. I’d still qt a nem to be safe but no where near the 11 week fallow tank period of hard shelled inverts or corals.
 
What can it attached too? No hard surfaces. In theory it could be in the water the anemone takes up, but ich in its free swimming stage cannot live long. I’d still qt a nem to be safe but no where near the 11 week fallow tank period of hard shelled inverts or corals.

Yeah I pretty much agree that it's a lower-risk prospect of getting ich from a RBTA than a fish that has been quarantined for less than 11 weeks, but that is far from foolproof. The OP is clearly new to QT, so we need to be careful with our language.

I said the only foolproof method is to QT fishless for ~11 weeks. Is it overkill? Maybe. But I said foolproof. You made a definitive statement that RBTAs do not need 11 weeks of QT in response to my statement - which is not true unless there is new scientific evidence I am unaware of. I am open to the possibility there is new evidence.

"Ich in its free swimming stage cannot live long."

This is true only after the tomites have hatched. If we are talking about a trophont dropping off a fish (into the water) and moving to protomont, then tomont, then tomite, we are talking 72 days based on the most recent scientific evidence that I am aware of.

You asked what can it (the ich) attach to?

Well, when we put the anemone in QT some of the water the anemone was in goes with it. We don't know what stage of the lifecycle the ich was in, so if there were protomonts in the water they have now gone into your QT and are adhering to any surface in the tank, where they can be dormant for up to 72 days (unless the scientific literature has been updated). Once they hatch, they have another ~ 2 days to find a host before they die. That is where the ~11 weeks number for foolproof certainty came from.

Again, I agree with you that getting ich from an RBTA is lower-risk than from a fish, but only because the RBTA cannot host the ich. Unfortunately you can't really accurately quantify the odds of success with your suggestion. The method I suggested is foolproof.

Finally, if the RBTA came from a system you were 100% certain had no fish in it for the last 11 weeks, you don't need to QT it at all - for ich at least.

There are a ton of more in-depth readings you can do on this, but this chart from Marine Depot is very helpful and accessible to beginners to this (like the OP):

https://blog.marinedepot.com/educat...cycle-diagram-cryptocaryon-irritans-treatment

So just to be clear, I agree that getting ich from an RBTA is a lower-risk (but non-quantifiable) probability than from a fish. The chances might be really low, but we just don't know.

My assertion is that my method is foolproof - again, based on the most recent research that I have seen.

I'm not trying to win a debate with you, I am just trying to give the OP the most accurate information so they can make an informed decision based on their own reward/risk analysis. There is way too much bad information and baseless assertions being made around this forum - usually to newbies that are most vulnerable to it. Again, the last sentence is not directed at you - it's more a of general observation. Look around some other recent threads :)

If people are successful in the hobby, they stay in the hobby. They stay engaged in conservation, reef preservation, etc. And it broadens the body of knowledge in the hobby hopefully! Something we all benefit from...

Have a good day!
 
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