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Poked by a long spine urchin, what to do???
- Thread starter JohnK
- Start date
fanaglethebagle
Not-so-old Sea Dog
I think youare supposed to soak it in very soapy water (dishwashing soap) for a while. The venom should just wear off... hopefully 
~Flighty~
Now with more baby
from http://scuba-doc.com/hzrdmrnlf.html
SEA URCHIN (photo)
Phylum echinodermata, Class Echinoidea. Multiple slender spines puncture the skin and break off.
Symptoms: Immediate pain, joint pain edema and numbness.
Treatment: Remove spines, cleanse, topical antibiotics and tetanus protection. Occasional surgical removal of spine fragments.
There are about as many treatments for sea urchin puncture wounds as there are species of sea urchins (600--80 are thought to be venomous to humans). The long-spined black sea urchin is probably the culprit most often responsible, as the spines break off in the dermis, leaving a painful black spot. The black spot is only black pigment, the proteinaceous spine is the part that needs removal. (vertically).
Soaking in hot water for 60-90 minutes (see below) is said to offer relief from the pain and swelling (Cianci). Others espouse magnesium sulfate pastes (Edmonds). Snake bite suction cups are used by some to remove the spines while others go ahead and excise the area conservatively under local anesthesia.
Edmonds describes a treatment that he says works, "apply extra trauma and movement to the area involved in order to break up the spines in the tissue". Surgery is indicated for a foreign body reaction and intra-articular puncture, the latter being probably the most serious consequence of the accident. Topical antibiotics and tetanus protection should be offered.
Hand injuries from sea urchin spines
AUTHOR: Strauss MB; MacDonald RI
SOURCE: Clin Orthop 1976 Jan-Feb;(114):216-8
ABSTRACT: Sea urchin spine injury is usually a benign process that rarely comes to the attention of a physician. Aside from the transient episode of excruciating pain which responds dramatically to hot water soaks, there is usually no residual disability. As in any puncture wound, tetanus prophylaxis and observation for latent infection is advised. Complications arise, however, when spines are embedded over bony prominences, within joints, or in contact with nerves. Cases are reported herein of the latter two problems occurring in the hand. A case of a neuropathy associated with sea urchin injuries has not been previously reported in the literature. When such injuries necessitate exploration, aseptic surgical technique is required.
The following is from the Merck Manual:
"Echinoderms: Pedicellariae stings are treated by washing the area and applying anantihistamine-analgesic-corticosteroid balm. Sea urchin spines should be removed immediately. A bluish discoloration at the site of entry may help in locating the spine, which may sometimes be seen
by xeroradiogram. Vinegar dissolves most superficial spines, and soaking the wound in vinegar several times/day and covering the area with a wet vinegar compress may be sufficient; surgery is seldom necessary at this point. If a small incision needs to be made to extract the spine, care must be taken as it is very fragile. In time, a spine may migrate into deeper tissues and require surgical removal. "
Sam Shelanski, MD, Rodales Scuba Diving Doctor has these instructions for stingray, sea urchin and other toxic puncture wounds:
"Rx:
If possible, elevate the affected area and apply a pressure bandage. Both techniques will help slow the absorption of any venom in the wound. Do not apply a tourniquet. This will generally result in more damage than it will prevent.
Immerse the wound in 45C/115F water, or as hot as you can tolerate, for 30 to 90 minutes. Many marine toxins are proteins which are destroyed by heat, much like what happens to an egg when it's hard-boiled. A hot soak can dramatically reduce the pain, and amount of damage, caused by a sting.
Control the pain. The pain from marine stings can be excruciating and lead to shock, making pain control an important early step in wound care. This can generally be done with local anesthetics, and very rarely will require the use of systemic pain relievers or narcotics.
Cleanse the wound with an antiseptic solution. Washing out remaining venom and pieces of spine will help minimize damage, speed healing and prevent infection. Leave an inaccessible spine alone only if it hasn't penetrated a joint, nerve or blood vessel.
Seek appropriate medical care. Despite doing all of the above, some wounds will require surgical cleansing and repair, antibiotics for infection control, as well as antivenins and life support for severe
stings. It is not always immediately obvious which stings will need more intensive medical care, so if at all possible, get care for all stings."
SEA URCHIN (photo)
Phylum echinodermata, Class Echinoidea. Multiple slender spines puncture the skin and break off.
Symptoms: Immediate pain, joint pain edema and numbness.
Treatment: Remove spines, cleanse, topical antibiotics and tetanus protection. Occasional surgical removal of spine fragments.
There are about as many treatments for sea urchin puncture wounds as there are species of sea urchins (600--80 are thought to be venomous to humans). The long-spined black sea urchin is probably the culprit most often responsible, as the spines break off in the dermis, leaving a painful black spot. The black spot is only black pigment, the proteinaceous spine is the part that needs removal. (vertically).
Soaking in hot water for 60-90 minutes (see below) is said to offer relief from the pain and swelling (Cianci). Others espouse magnesium sulfate pastes (Edmonds). Snake bite suction cups are used by some to remove the spines while others go ahead and excise the area conservatively under local anesthesia.
Edmonds describes a treatment that he says works, "apply extra trauma and movement to the area involved in order to break up the spines in the tissue". Surgery is indicated for a foreign body reaction and intra-articular puncture, the latter being probably the most serious consequence of the accident. Topical antibiotics and tetanus protection should be offered.
Hand injuries from sea urchin spines
AUTHOR: Strauss MB; MacDonald RI
SOURCE: Clin Orthop 1976 Jan-Feb;(114):216-8
ABSTRACT: Sea urchin spine injury is usually a benign process that rarely comes to the attention of a physician. Aside from the transient episode of excruciating pain which responds dramatically to hot water soaks, there is usually no residual disability. As in any puncture wound, tetanus prophylaxis and observation for latent infection is advised. Complications arise, however, when spines are embedded over bony prominences, within joints, or in contact with nerves. Cases are reported herein of the latter two problems occurring in the hand. A case of a neuropathy associated with sea urchin injuries has not been previously reported in the literature. When such injuries necessitate exploration, aseptic surgical technique is required.
The following is from the Merck Manual:
"Echinoderms: Pedicellariae stings are treated by washing the area and applying anantihistamine-analgesic-corticosteroid balm. Sea urchin spines should be removed immediately. A bluish discoloration at the site of entry may help in locating the spine, which may sometimes be seen
by xeroradiogram. Vinegar dissolves most superficial spines, and soaking the wound in vinegar several times/day and covering the area with a wet vinegar compress may be sufficient; surgery is seldom necessary at this point. If a small incision needs to be made to extract the spine, care must be taken as it is very fragile. In time, a spine may migrate into deeper tissues and require surgical removal. "
Sam Shelanski, MD, Rodales Scuba Diving Doctor has these instructions for stingray, sea urchin and other toxic puncture wounds:
"Rx:
If possible, elevate the affected area and apply a pressure bandage. Both techniques will help slow the absorption of any venom in the wound. Do not apply a tourniquet. This will generally result in more damage than it will prevent.
Immerse the wound in 45C/115F water, or as hot as you can tolerate, for 30 to 90 minutes. Many marine toxins are proteins which are destroyed by heat, much like what happens to an egg when it's hard-boiled. A hot soak can dramatically reduce the pain, and amount of damage, caused by a sting.
Control the pain. The pain from marine stings can be excruciating and lead to shock, making pain control an important early step in wound care. This can generally be done with local anesthetics, and very rarely will require the use of systemic pain relievers or narcotics.
Cleanse the wound with an antiseptic solution. Washing out remaining venom and pieces of spine will help minimize damage, speed healing and prevent infection. Leave an inaccessible spine alone only if it hasn't penetrated a joint, nerve or blood vessel.
Seek appropriate medical care. Despite doing all of the above, some wounds will require surgical cleansing and repair, antibiotics for infection control, as well as antivenins and life support for severe
stings. It is not always immediately obvious which stings will need more intensive medical care, so if at all possible, get care for all stings."
Leroy
Pres. NE Matchcover Club
Did a search and found this:
For simple punctures, gently pull out any protruding spines.
These are so brittle they almost always break off in the wound. Neither urine nor vinegar dissolves such embedded spines. Never try to crush them by hitting the area with a heavy object. This only adds to the injury. In most cases, the body either absorbs spine fragments in 24 hours to 3 weeks, or they work themselves out through the skin. Most wounds heal in about one month.
Applying heat for pain control is unproven. Some authors recommend it. Others believe it is of no benefit and should not be done.
------------------------------------------------
Treatment is largely directed at alleviating the symptoms of pain and swelling, there is no specific antidote.
Inspect the affected area carefully. Carefully remove any adherent pedicellariea to stop the flow of venom.
The long spines may break off within the skin and can be difficult to remove. It is not necessary to completely remove sea urchin spines (unlike the pedicellariea which need to be removed quickly. However spine remaining within the skin, may cause a later allergic reaction and should then be removed preferably by a doctor or other medical professional. This may require minor surgery and local anesthesia.
Pat the skin dry with a non-abrasive cloth.
If inflammation and swelling remain, you can use over the counter Hydrocortisone crea, 0.5% for 3-4 days.
If symptoms persist or if systemic symptoms develop (nausea, vomiting, numbness or paralysis) seek medical attention promptly.
------------------------------------------------------------
Sea Urchin Puncture Treatment
Immerse the affected area for 30-90 minutes in water as hot as the injured person can tolerate. Repeat as necessary to control pain.
Use tweezers to remove any spines in the wound.
Apply shaving cream and gently scrap with the affected area with a razor to remove pedicellaria (Jellyfish Stings).
Another method is to apply melted wax to the injury (use caution), allow the wax to set, and then peel it off to remove the tiny spines.
Scrub the wound with soap and water followed by extensive flushing with fresh water.
Do not close the wound with tape.
If signs of infection, such as pus, redness, or heat occur, apply topical antibiotic ointment.
Oral antibiotics are usually recommended for infection. If an infection develops, continue antibiotics for at least 5 days after all signs of infection have cleared. Check for drug allergy prior to starting any antibiotic. A doctor can recommend the right antibiotic. Some antibiotics can cause an increased sensitivity to the sun, so use a sunscreen (at least SPF 15).
Relieve pain with 1-2 tablets of acetaminophen (Tylenol) pain relievers every 4 hours and/or 1-2 ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin) every 6-8 hours.
For simple punctures, gently pull out any protruding spines.
These are so brittle they almost always break off in the wound. Neither urine nor vinegar dissolves such embedded spines. Never try to crush them by hitting the area with a heavy object. This only adds to the injury. In most cases, the body either absorbs spine fragments in 24 hours to 3 weeks, or they work themselves out through the skin. Most wounds heal in about one month.
Applying heat for pain control is unproven. Some authors recommend it. Others believe it is of no benefit and should not be done.
------------------------------------------------
Treatment is largely directed at alleviating the symptoms of pain and swelling, there is no specific antidote.
Inspect the affected area carefully. Carefully remove any adherent pedicellariea to stop the flow of venom.
The long spines may break off within the skin and can be difficult to remove. It is not necessary to completely remove sea urchin spines (unlike the pedicellariea which need to be removed quickly. However spine remaining within the skin, may cause a later allergic reaction and should then be removed preferably by a doctor or other medical professional. This may require minor surgery and local anesthesia.
Pat the skin dry with a non-abrasive cloth.
If inflammation and swelling remain, you can use over the counter Hydrocortisone crea, 0.5% for 3-4 days.
If symptoms persist or if systemic symptoms develop (nausea, vomiting, numbness or paralysis) seek medical attention promptly.
------------------------------------------------------------
Sea Urchin Puncture Treatment
Immerse the affected area for 30-90 minutes in water as hot as the injured person can tolerate. Repeat as necessary to control pain.
Use tweezers to remove any spines in the wound.
Apply shaving cream and gently scrap with the affected area with a razor to remove pedicellaria (Jellyfish Stings).
Another method is to apply melted wax to the injury (use caution), allow the wax to set, and then peel it off to remove the tiny spines.
Scrub the wound with soap and water followed by extensive flushing with fresh water.
Do not close the wound with tape.
If signs of infection, such as pus, redness, or heat occur, apply topical antibiotic ointment.
Oral antibiotics are usually recommended for infection. If an infection develops, continue antibiotics for at least 5 days after all signs of infection have cleared. Check for drug allergy prior to starting any antibiotic. A doctor can recommend the right antibiotic. Some antibiotics can cause an increased sensitivity to the sun, so use a sunscreen (at least SPF 15).
Relieve pain with 1-2 tablets of acetaminophen (Tylenol) pain relievers every 4 hours and/or 1-2 ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin) every 6-8 hours.
pillowfish
#2
If the spine has punctured the skin- remove the broken spine carefully, if the puncture site is bleeding try to make it "bleed" as much as possible under the hottest water you can safely tolerate w/out burning the skin(bleeding helps to excrete any toxin(if any) and also ensures that no pieces of the "spine" are still in the wound itself. Keep the affected area in hot water for up to as long as an hour. You can use a bit of peroxide(not crucial) apply neosporin or similar. If you feel anything "unusual" call your primary physician(I would anyhow just as a precaution). This is only IME from urchin diving in Cicily, they were not long-spined urchins, so this is only a suggestion and not intended as medical treatment or advice(I am not a Dr. or medical professional). I hope that you feel better soon-they can sting for quite a while, unfortunately. Good Luck and keep us posted!
naturebatslast
Senior Toad Licker
Thanks for all the input.
Luckily, this seems to be no big deal. The stinging has already gone away, I actually forgot about it and starting doing water testing.
Maybe I overreacted at first???
jk
Luckily, it's not that big of a deal, but the threats from infection are enough to make most nervous. If things went badly and you got an exceptionally deep stick, you'll get "red line", very painful red lines ascending up the afflicted limb, common when stuck by redfish spines and dogfish "horns". Suck it out, clean it well, use a bandaid and curse that damn urchin's spines.
I think this is no biggie at all at this point. It was a very light poke, I just went right to the computer and posted because right after it happened it started to sting a little. 20 minutes later, I wasn't even thinking about it. Now I'm not even sure which finger it was?
I think I'll live...
Thanks all
jk
I think I'll live...
Thanks all
jk
Ummmmm, Colors........ Why's the TV taking to me? And how come major leauge baseball wants to control my mind? Colors............
But really, I saw that surfing penguin movie the other day, the main penguin steps on an urchin so the hawiain guru penguin pee's on it to neutralize the toxin. I was afraid someone would suggest that..
But really, I saw that surfing penguin movie the other day, the main penguin steps on an urchin so the hawiain guru penguin pee's on it to neutralize the toxin. I was afraid someone would suggest that..
muddskipper
Non-member
A. Look at point of entry like .. " OH SH@T!!"
B. count to 10
C. Start pacing nervously as the pain builds up.
D. Start swearing everything you know up and down and cursing yourself for putting the bloody thing in your tank not having researched this before you were stung.
E. A couple hours later when you can finally sit down again for more than 2 minutes start swearing that your gonna throw the thing out in the back yard only to realize that would mean touching it again so instead opt for the 2nd option of knowing where exactly it is at any min. while you have your hand in the tank. ( until about 6 months later when you do it again)
F. Have a few drinks and calm down and try to make sense of this whole ordeal while everyone else is still pointing and laughing at you!!
B. count to 10
C. Start pacing nervously as the pain builds up.
D. Start swearing everything you know up and down and cursing yourself for putting the bloody thing in your tank not having researched this before you were stung.
E. A couple hours later when you can finally sit down again for more than 2 minutes start swearing that your gonna throw the thing out in the back yard only to realize that would mean touching it again so instead opt for the 2nd option of knowing where exactly it is at any min. while you have your hand in the tank. ( until about 6 months later when you do it again)
F. Have a few drinks and calm down and try to make sense of this whole ordeal while everyone else is still pointing and laughing at you!!
Dragon2115
Non-member
Dude, with all the anemones and other nasties in there I'm surprised you go in with anything less than a leather glove on. 
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