Solving the nutrients enigma

[chadfish]

Okay, I suppose this is a classic reefing problem, but I can’t seem to solve it.

Micro algae and dinos and cyano are all more efficient at capturing nutrients than coral or macroalgae. If I feed normally my nutrients bottom out and I get dinos. Of course the nutrients are NOT 0, they just don’t read on the test kit because the dinos, micro algae are absorbing them. If it try to raise nutrients by feeding fish or coral, I get… more dinos plus GHA plus cyano plus the briopsis gets out of control.

How do I raise nutrients without an explosion of disgustingness? Should I simply remove the chaeto that is probably helping the tank to bottom out? Do I need to switch my base rock for live rock? Should I buy a big UV and filter the water? Should I run GFO to capture the PO4 before the dinos can get it? Should I dose vodka to encourage competition, or Vibrant or Dr Tims, or just pretend that I don’t have an issue?

I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. There are too many pitfalls, I have analysis paralysis. Any advice from someone who has lived it?

Tank: 50 gal with 15 gal sump
Chaeto in refugium on opposing cycle
pH: 8.2
Alk: 7.8 and rising (trying to get back to 8.5)
Ca: 485
Mag: 1400+
NO3: 0.0
PO4: 0.0

 

[Drichards]

I've had success with;
1) UV
2)Microbacter7 daily
3)Dose PO4 (0.10 - (0.15)
4)Dose NO3 (10 -15)
5)manual removal often
6)Change filter socks often
When I've done the above rigorously I usually start seeing a decline around week 2 with dinos

 

[nvmy22s]

I was having similar issue, not sure if this was my fix or if you use it, over past few weeks I started using phytoplankton, dinos are gone, and hair algae is almost completely gone. I'm doing about 5ml day. I upped my feedings too. Was recommended by a reefer in another group. Seems to have helped.

 

[ChrisV]

I had a pretty nasty dino outbreak early last summer. I followed the protocol recommended by Dr. Tim's. It involves a several day blackout (like, aluminum foil over the tank level blackout) and dosing two different microbial products for two weeks. I also slightly bumped up my temp and added a small uv sterilizer (nano tank).

I added a few turbo snails which knocked out nuisance algae at a level that was far beyond what the astrea snails were doing.

Together these things cleared up in about 14 days.

 

[Blue Light Aquatics]

Sounds like the system just needs to balance out. How old is the display?

 

[Edward]

Sounds like the system just needs to balance out. How old is the display?

Just was about to ask the same thing, a lot of these problems are those of a younger tank in my personal experience

 

[chadfish]

Sounds like the system just needs to balance out. How old is the display?

Just over a year old. Started with dry rock and added a couple of small pieces of live rock from Dong and Frank.

 

[Blue Light Aquatics]

Sounds like it may need some more seeding and balancing in favor of the things you want growing. Think of it like good gut health. Need to put in the beneficial flora and fauna to out compete stuff you don't want.

Maybe start by seeding with bacteria preparations, copepods, worms, mini brittle stars, etc. Add some additional CUC inverts and herbivorous fish and even feed a little heavier to promote their growth and reproduction. Won't happen overnight, but they will start to outcompete and displace the nuisance algae

 

[chadfish]

Sounds like it may need some more seeding and balancing in favor of the things you want growing. Think of it like good gut health. Need to put in the beneficial flora and fauna to out compete stuff you don't want.

Maybe start by seeding with bacteria preparations, copepods, worms, mini brittle stars, etc. Add some additional CUC inverts and herbivorous fish and even feed a little heavier to promote their growth and reproduction. Won't happen overnight, but they will start to outcompete and displace the nuisance algae

So far my stock includes:
2 pajama cardinals
2 adolescent clowns
Diamond goby/pistol combo
Firefish
Full-size black Bristletooth Blenny
Small chromis
2 trocus
1 Mexican turbo
4 narcissus snails
Fighting conch
2 or 3 hermits (they fight to the death)
Chitons
A bazillion mini brittle stars
Asterena stars
Amphiods, at least 2 kinds of copepods,
Strange sand worms
Some sponge growth in sump
Tons of White worms with those little filter heads
A beautiful feather duster
35 coral: soft, LPS, SPS, anemones

 

[Blue Light Aquatics]

Sounds pretty legit. Perhaps a slight over feeding or maybe something sneaking through the source water from the RO/DI? Maybe some excess CO2 buildup?

 

[chadfish]

Sounds pretty legit. Perhaps a slight over feeding or maybe something sneaking through the source water from the RO/DI? Maybe some excess CO2 buildup?

RO/DI says 0 TDS, and I believe it, but it’s a year old and probably time to change it out.

But yeah, you touched on the enigma. I can cut back on feeding to reduce nutrients for the dinos and cyano, but I feel like I should increase nutrients to promote competition. But when I’ve done that in the past via dosing nitrate, feeding more, or adding live phytoplankton, all the algae exploded and Dino’s got worse, not better.

Maybe it’s a combination of adding bottled bacteria and more nutrients, or maybe just wait it out and after another year…. ‍

 

[Terry Martin]

Sounds like it may need some more seeding and balancing in favor of the things you want growing. Think of it like good gut health. Need to put in the beneficial flora and fauna to out compete stuff you don't want.

Maybe start by seeding with bacteria preparations, copepods, worms, mini brittle stars, etc. Add some additional CUC inverts and herbivorous fish and even feed a little heavier to promote their growth and reproduction. Won't happen overnight, but they will start to outcompete and displace the nuisance algae

This was y experience starting a tank with dead rock. I fought nuisance algae in dinos for a year, uv sterilizer, turbo snails, manually cleaning rocks, refugium, etc. and nothing much worked and then after a little over a year, it just resolved and I can now run .2ish phosphate and 10ish nitrates with next to no algae and no dinos whatsover. I agree that getting as much living stuff in there as possible is good and getting some liver rock to seed your rocks is good. I wouldn't do anything drastic.

 

[chadfish]

Sounds pretty legit.

Ha ha! I guess I’m getting there. Fake it till you make it, right? Thanks for the help, I think you’re right, it’s still a maturing system.