Another palytoxin horror story (new reefers take notice)

[ChrisV]

I know that the vast majority of you are already well aware of the risks of keeping zoas and palys that produce large amounts of palytoxin. This thread is a good reminder though, and is nessecary reading for new reefers:

Another story of palytoxin poisoning, recent experience

I contemplated even posting this because hindsight it could had been avoided, be gentle because I am still very sick. Yesterday after mowing the lawn I was looking at my back porch thinking yeah those paly plugs have been out here a month now in the hot southern sun, they are done for and i need...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[dz6t]

Despite many of the zoas does not contain paly toxin. some common paly in our hobby does. Here is a good article that helps id some paly that contain paly toxin. Most of these paly are very fast growers.

The Dangers (and Myths) of Zoa Toxicity – Part 1

The oceans are full of creatures capable of killing us; one of the more surprising marine menaces is a group of popular aquarium corals known variably as “but

reefs.com

 

[Hannahhh]

I know that the vast majority of you are already well aware of the risks of keeping zoas and palys that produce large amounts of palytoxin. This thread is a good reminder though, and is nessecary reading for new reefers:

Another story of palytoxin poisoning, recent experience

I contemplated even posting this because hindsight it could had been avoided, be gentle because I am still very sick. Yesterday after mowing the lawn I was looking at my back porch thinking yeah those paly plugs have been out here a month now in the hot southern sun, they are done for and i need...

www.reef2reef.com

The first time I ever tried fragging, a zoa squirted in my eye. It was a nightmare. My eye ended up ok but it was extremely painful for awhile. The ER doc that saw me ended up publishing about my case… Not the way I was hoping to have my first published paper

Toxic Keratoconjunctivitis from Coral Reef

Abstract. A 25-year-old woman presented with right eye pain, lid edema, conjunctival injection and chemosis, and mild corneal epitheliopathy after exposure to fluid content from an aquarium coral reef. Topical moxifloxacin and prednisolone were started 4 times daily, with full clinical...

www.karger.com

 

[ChrisV]

The first time I ever tried fragging, a zoa squirted in my eye. It was a nightmare. My eye ended up ok but it was extremely painful for awhile. The ER doc that saw me ended up publishing about my case… Not the way I was hoping to have my first published paper

Toxic Keratoconjunctivitis from Coral Reef

Abstract. A 25-year-old woman presented with right eye pain, lid edema, conjunctival injection and chemosis, and mild corneal epitheliopathy after exposure to fluid content from an aquarium coral reef. Topical moxifloxacin and prednisolone were started 4 times daily, with full clinical...

www.karger.com

Wow. Yikes. I didn't realize green bay packers are a toxic strain. I guess that's sort of the point. Sounds like it was a rough experience.

Cool that you were able to get a photo from your tank into a peer reviewed paper ...but a bummer that the zoas in question wouldn't open for the pic!

 

[nickeg79]

It’s sad the guy and his cat and girlfriend got sick.

Frag plugs are 5 bucks why would you re use them ? What if there was some pesticides outside or something that would fowl the tank up. To me it just sounds like this guy was stupid.
I get it this is an expensive hobby. Frag plugs aren’t making you broke. Save money on something else.

 

[ChrisV]

It’s sad the guy and his cat and girlfriend got sick.

Frag plugs are 5 bucks why would you re use them ? What if there was some pesticides outside or something that would fowl the tank up. To me it just sounds like this guy was stupid.
I get it this is an expensive hobby. Frag plugs aren’t making you broke. Save money on something else.

I see people reuse frag plugs fairly frequently, but I agree, this was not wise.

I guess he just didn't understand the risk. I think that's where the problem is. For example, I bet many people have not heard of gonipora toxin. Dong shared a nice article about it last year.

My incorrect thought used to be that big polyps = palytoxin, and clearly palythoa = palytoxin. I would not have guessed that green bay packers would be one of the strains that cause an issue-- but as @Hannahhh makes very clear, my guess would be incorrect.

I'm not suggesting that people hold back on keeping zoas, but I do think it's dangerous to make assumptions about what is and is not toxic. I'm comfortable keeping toxic animals in my home, but I personally will assume any of my 2 dozen or so zoa strains might be toxic. At least I know my green bay packers are.

(Here is the Wikipedia page about gonipora toxin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goniopora_toxin)

 

[dz6t]

For frag plugs that covered with zoas and /or paly, a better way to dispose of them is to put them in a sealed ziplock bag and toss them in the trash. For frag plugs that used for sps or lps (except Gonipora) , they are safe to reuse.
Gonipora toxin is much worse than paly toxin. Those people who cut large goni with frag saw, should wear protective gears.
I have to turn down several requests to frag Gonipora.

 

[chadfish]

I see people reuse frag plugs fairly frequently, but I agree, this was not wise.

I guess he just didn't understand the risk. I think that's where the problem is. For example, I bet many people have not heard of gonipora toxin. Dong shared a nice article about it last year.

My incorrect thought used to be that big polyps = palytoxin, and clearly palythoa = palytoxin. I would not have guessed that green bay packers would be one of the strains that cause an issue-- but as @Hannahhh makes very clear, my guess would be incorrect.

I'm not suggesting that people hold back on keeping zoas, but I do think it's dangerous to make assumptions about what is and is not toxic. I'm comfortable keeping toxic animals in my home, but I personally will assume any of my 2 dozen or so zoa strains might be toxic. At least I know my green bay packers are.

(Here is the Wikipedia page about gonipora toxin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goniopora_toxin)

Seems like palytoxin is about 1000x more toxic than Goni toxin. The LD50 of Goni Toxin is .3-.5 mg/kg but palytoxin LD50 is 150 ng/kg

 

[dz6t]

You can’t compare the two numbers because these two numbers were determined via different administration routes. Also, Goni toxin is 4 times heavier than paly toxin.
When you cut up a goni, you will be expose to more toxin than when you frag a paly colony.
Afterall, both are highly toxic.

 

[dz6t]

I found the direct comparison of Palytoxin and Goni toxin, indeed palytoxin is a lot more lethal to mice via the same administration route.

 

[dz6t]

The most “remarkable” thing about Gonipora is that they release their toxin in the water which damage and even kill other coral.
“Gunthorpe L, Cameron AM (1990a) Toxic exudate from the hard coral Gonioporatenuidens. Toxicon 28(11): 1347-1350.”
I have not found a study that if paly can do that same.