Auto Water changes?
- Thread starter ScottM
- Start date
fanaglethebagle
Not-so-old Sea Dog
Everything I hear about auto changes seems bad...
joefitz
Non-member
Are you looking to simplify the process or completely automate it? I'd be very leery about trying to completely automate it unless it represents such a small volume that if something went wrong it wouldn't matter (seems doubtful at 50g!).
I think an easy solution, one I need to get on the ball about myself, would be to simply reconfigure your plumbing from your main return so that it can return water back to the sump (a tee and ball-valve). Then, when you want to do a water change you just connect pipe from that sump return to a drain, and empty the sump.
Then you can just have a 55g drum with a ball-valve that you either pump, or preferrably have it raised and let gravity do the work, back into the sump and just close the valve when you've reached your desired level.
I was contemplating a much more sophisticated solution but the more I've thought about it, the less that really makes sense. Why not use my existing return to drain the water I need and then let the new water drain into the sump from a raised 55g drum? Super easy to do, hard to screw up. Why am I not doing this already???
I'd be interested in other people's thoughts. I remember Bec having a pretty neat solution to this issue...might want to PM her.
I think an easy solution, one I need to get on the ball about myself, would be to simply reconfigure your plumbing from your main return so that it can return water back to the sump (a tee and ball-valve). Then, when you want to do a water change you just connect pipe from that sump return to a drain, and empty the sump.
Then you can just have a 55g drum with a ball-valve that you either pump, or preferrably have it raised and let gravity do the work, back into the sump and just close the valve when you've reached your desired level.
I was contemplating a much more sophisticated solution but the more I've thought about it, the less that really makes sense. Why not use my existing return to drain the water I need and then let the new water drain into the sump from a raised 55g drum? Super easy to do, hard to screw up. Why am I not doing this already???
I'd be interested in other people's thoughts. I remember Bec having a pretty neat solution to this issue...might want to PM her.
marco67
Smart is.. a box of rocks
I just got done with one,
I think the design is pretty slick ...and it works great.
Used an Aquatec demand delivery pump (.5 GPM) it's on a timer so you can regulate how much per pumping and per day. I pump the new water into the main tank (OC 215) 2X per day 10 mins each using 3/8 poly tube that's cased in lt grey 1/2" pvc the sleeve is zip tied into the tank right next to the overflow box to help hide it and the poly curls up out at the bottom just above the substrate. Next I drilled a 1 1/2" bulkhead into the sump right at operating level, the change water tank is kept at 74-75 so that the water coming in will sink and you will get mostly "old" water down to the sump. Of course as the water level in the sump goes up water goes out.
The only thing that concerns me is in the event of a power outage the drain down will drain out. Which isn't terrible ....it just means you get an extra 10-20 gallons change on start up (it's important that top off be on a peristaltic pump so you can maintain salinity) You could also add a normally closed solenoid to the drain to prevent that drain down)
I think the design is pretty slick ...and it works great.
Used an Aquatec demand delivery pump (.5 GPM) it's on a timer so you can regulate how much per pumping and per day. I pump the new water into the main tank (OC 215) 2X per day 10 mins each using 3/8 poly tube that's cased in lt grey 1/2" pvc the sleeve is zip tied into the tank right next to the overflow box to help hide it and the poly curls up out at the bottom just above the substrate. Next I drilled a 1 1/2" bulkhead into the sump right at operating level, the change water tank is kept at 74-75 so that the water coming in will sink and you will get mostly "old" water down to the sump. Of course as the water level in the sump goes up water goes out.
The only thing that concerns me is in the event of a power outage the drain down will drain out. Which isn't terrible ....it just means you get an extra 10-20 gallons change on start up (it's important that top off be on a peristaltic pump so you can maintain salinity) You could also add a normally closed solenoid to the drain to prevent that drain down)
Shallowwaters
Non-member
Are you guys talking two different things?
There is "automatic/automated" water change and then there is "continuous" water change.
50 gallons seems approprirate for an "automated" process to avoid buckets, siphons, etc. Reefnroll has a good system for that. But peristaltic and aquatec pumps seem appropriate for "continuous" water changes.
There is "automatic/automated" water change and then there is "continuous" water change.
50 gallons seems approprirate for an "automated" process to avoid buckets, siphons, etc. Reefnroll has a good system for that. But peristaltic and aquatec pumps seem appropriate for "continuous" water changes.
Scuba_Dave
Non-member
I have a T on my skimmer pump
I shut off the recric pump & let water drain to the sump
I open the T on the skimmer line & pump the old water down the drain.
Then shut that down & pump new water from a 55g drum into the sump
Then restart
I did forget to take the hose out of the sump when I shut it off once
I went back upstairs & was startled when I saw the tank water level sink & heard the pump in the basement sucking dry air
I went down & shut the pump off, no water on the floor
Now water went down the drain - that was shut off
Where the heck did the 50g of new ater go that I just pumped???
....went back into the 55g drum - spihon was created - sump is up off the floor.
I just use cement blocks to raise my sump - only 1 block high - 8" off the floor
I shut off the recric pump & let water drain to the sump
I open the T on the skimmer line & pump the old water down the drain.
Then shut that down & pump new water from a 55g drum into the sump
Then restart
I did forget to take the hose out of the sump when I shut it off once
I went back upstairs & was startled when I saw the tank water level sink & heard the pump in the basement sucking dry air
I went down & shut the pump off, no water on the floor
Now water went down the drain - that was shut off
Where the heck did the 50g of new ater go that I just pumped???
....went back into the 55g drum - spihon was created - sump is up off the floor.
I just use cement blocks to raise my sump - only 1 block high - 8" off the floor
The idea I had for a continuous wc was using top-off water of moderate salinity, and then use a peristaltic pump or just gravity drip to fill the system faster than needed to compensate for evap, with an overflow to waste. You'd need to have a good idea of your evap rate and then calculate the required salinity for your preferred wc rate (10%/wk, 20%/wk, etc.). i posted the formulas in a previous thread. This way you essentially replace your top-off system with a top-off/water change system.
Someone here (can't remember who) has a similar set-up using saline top-off, but using wet skimmate to export old water, rather than using a sump overflow. If you could keep skimmate volume constant, this seems like the best set-up. And you could use a float valve or switch rather than peristaltic or drip.
Ryan
Someone here (can't remember who) has a similar set-up using saline top-off, but using wet skimmate to export old water, rather than using a sump overflow. If you could keep skimmate volume constant, this seems like the best set-up. And you could use a float valve or switch rather than peristaltic or drip.
Ryan
shawn
Non-member
For continuous changes it is easier to use two sets of peristaltic pumps - one two-channel pump to "change" the water, and one single-channel pump to "top off". I find that evaporation varies quite a bit during the year and two sets of pumps makes adjustment much easier - you always keep the salinity and rate of the change water the same and just adjust the top-off rate to compensate for evaporation. Works for me.
shawn
Non-member
Armando said:
The efficiency of continuous water changes is examined in this thread:
http://216.235.242.50/forums/showthread.php?t=3554
OP
OP
ScottM
Non-member
marco67 said:
sounds good have any pics?
I plan to do small daily changes, but also want to automate a monthly large volume change. keep in mind this is seperate from an auto top off to replace evaporated water...
the daily changes are all set, the auto topoff is all set, its the large volume automation i was hoping someone had setup or had links before i spend the $$$ on a trial and error.
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shawn
Non-member
Armando said:wow. some serious chit in that thread
well if i understand correctly (probably i didn't) the efficiency is around 63%. That means if you automate water changes you'll be wasting 37% of your salt mix. is that right?
Yup, and if you do 25% water changes you are wasting 32% of your salt mix. Even 50% water changes result in wasting 25% of your salt mix. All of those values are compared with doing 100% water changes, which are pretty much impractical.
