Flow vs Turnover

[dz6t]

I'm glad there are other cheap #$^$ard's besides Dong and myself

Thank you very much, Mark.

Being a real cheap whatever, I totally eliminated the sump.

Turnover rate only works for volume entering/exiting a tank

Without a sump, no water enter nor exit the tank. so my tanks turn over rate is zero but with a lot of flow.

 

[dz6t]

FWIW,

I don't see turn over rate being all that important. I personally think that flow IN the tank is much more important. Also, as you all know, I'm a cheap #$^$ard and creating flow INSIDE the tank typically costs a lot less in terms of electricity. For me, with a sump in the basement I have to work against gravity, which costs a lot. Pumps run 24/7, and end up being a significant amount of the electicity used by a tank.

very well said. by the way, may be all chemists are cheap #$^$ard and all the marketing people are fat #$^$ard

 

[Matt L.]

0

Without a sump, no water enter nor exit the tank. so my tanks turn over rate is zero but with a lot of flow.

Actually,

Your turn over rate is zero.

Your flow in and out of the tank is also zero.

You have water movement and that's all you can say

Matt

 

[dz6t]

I knew it!

Now my flow is zero also. Darn!

 

[Matt L.]

The problem with turnover

I have never gone for a specific figure. But what I have found, is that approx 25x flow in the tank - varied - seems to prevent algae from growing
Right now I have around 24x, but it is not varied enough to prevent dead spots
The new pump will provide 900gph
The existing Tunze give me 1850gph controllable
A 2nd Tunze PH will give me another 1650gph
So a total of 4400gph = 35x turnover for the 125g
Once I swap in the 180g that will drop to 24x
Then I will upgrade the 6000 Tunze to a 6100, possible adding a 2nd 6100 at the same time
If I was closer to the reality of doing this I might purchase the pair of 6000's for sale.

S-Dave,

It sounds like a real nice setup. Not to be a PITA, but chances are you have much less "turnover" than you estimate -- it is actually not possible to add up the individual flow rates from all the powerheads and pumps you have in the system and then use that to compute a turnover rate.

Matt

 

[Matt L.]

Physics sucks

I knew it!

Now my flow is zero also. Darn!

But that doesn't mean you don't have any water movement in your tank.

Matt

 

[Yaktop]

Yes its called a 5 gallon bucket and stopwatch
Seriously, thats how I would do it because true flow meters that dont need calibration and that dont require an engineering degree to read arent cheap. Of course you could always get one of the cheap ones and bribe an engineer with beer and frags to come read it for you

Most people have reasonable access to their drain lines so the 5g bucket and stopwatch method isnt all that crazy. I've done it in the past on my old tank. I used a 1g plastic pitcher though.

Mr. Rob, glad to hear from ya. Yeah the old bucket routine is ok for a one short but I was more curious to reduced flow over time and having a meter connected would work well. figured I'd throw it out there.

 

[dave601m]

I'm an engineer and can be bribed with beer.

if i may give my opinion: i think it's important to ask yourself what you are doing with the water movement you are looking for. for example, in my case, my sump has only a skimmer and a little bit of chaeto. it's a recirculating skimmer, so it has a direct water inlet. my best solution is to plumb the overflow on the tank right to the inlet of the skimmer. i get 100% of the water that drains out of the tank right through the skimmer with no dilution, then through the chaeto to remove whatever is left. suggested skimmer inlet flow rates for this particular skimmer is 150 - 200 gallons per hour, so i run a 150 gph return pump back to the tank. that is all that flows through my sump. if i ever decided to stick some frags in my sump, i'd probably just toss in a powerhead to create water movement without affecting the overall flow rate through the sump. this way, i still get 100% water pass through in the skimmer, and the water movement i need.

similarly, i run powerheads in the main display to keep detritus suspended until the overflow can remove it. the powerheads create enough water movement, allowing the overflow to remove the waste. i don't try to use my sump to create any actual water movement in the tank, because it's too expensive to pump high, and would make the skimmer less efficient by not putting all the waste through it (or by trying to put too much through it).
plus other problems here are microbubbles, etc that i'd rather not deal with.

this works out well for me, but again you have to ask yourself what the point of your water movement is before you decide the best way to do it. what i do may not be good for someone else's setup. in my opinion though, especially if your sump is in the basement, it's a waste to pump any more water than you need to up to a height of 8'.

Yes its called a 5 gallon bucket and stopwatch
Seriously, thats how I would do it because true flow meters that dont need calibration and that dont require an engineering degree to read arent cheap. Of course you could always get one of the cheap ones and bribe an engineer with beer and frags to come read it for you

Most people have reasonable access to their drain lines so the 5g bucket and stopwatch method isnt all that crazy. I've done it in the past on my old tank. I used a 1g plastic pitcher though.

 

[Scuba_Dave]

I blame Marc, he named the thread "Flow Vs Turnover"
darn
He should of named it "Water Movement Vs Turnover"

oh, wait closed system no turnover

He should of named it "Water Movement Vs Water Movment to Sump"

 

[Matt L.]

Less Romantic Sounding...

He should of named it "Water Movement Vs Water Movment to Sump"

That's basically what it is

Matt