Switched back to metal halides.

not once did i make a comparison or judgement about the merits of MH or how they compare to LED.

I didnt say you did. that statement was of my opinion and had nothing to do with yours...maybe it should have been a seperate paragraph. I was simply commenting on what you credited LEDs with being able to grow. I was trying to state that growing xenia and GSP is far less difficult to grow than Acroporas. Much less forgiving if you turn LEDs up too high or have the wrong spectrum or have the lighting duration too long.
 
agreed that GSP and xenia is not difficult to keep. however, ive had positive results with frogspawn, dendros, blastos, candy cane, and some other stony corals. i've not yet tried any SPS.
 
I have had my LEDs for about 15mos, and my growth has been crazy.I don't have timeline with pics, but friends/family do notice that they do seem to be growing much faster. I have a cap I need to get rid of because its going to cover to much of my tank. I would never go back to my MH.

Derek
 
6 weeks ago
54corner004.jpg
3 weeks ago
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under radion.
 
I've also moved the 2 corals on the left side cause the red planet and green milli has grown bigger and was starting to touch each other.I'll take another pic later today when my light comes on to show growth under led.
 
I don't have progression pics so I guess you will need to just believe me... I have had 3 AI sol blue pods over a 130g for the better part of 2 years (as long as the tank has been running). On 2 other tanks prior I had MH. 250W for the same depth tanks. I think comparisons are difficult over time because so many people experience chemical swings over time, myself included, that may have more to do with growth or lack there of than the lighting differences between MH and LED. The other growth factor is flow and nutrient loads, EVERYONE has differences here which affect growth so this also makes it tough to judge. Having said that, I have had mixed experiences and I still like the LED.

My tank is SPS dominant. I have a small island with a few shrooms, 10-15 different types of zoas and paly's, acans, in addition to a blue stag, sunsest monti, candelight acro, and 2 unknown acro frags. I also have a couple blastos and an orange plate coral. The plate and blastos are directly below the light on the sand bed, the softy island is not in direct lighting. The par readings fall in around 300-250 depending on the side of the island. The orange plate sees 320 ish. The plate gets more light than it needs, polypos extend at night and during actinic periods.

3 types of duncans on the sand bed 1/2 in the light, 1/2 shaded and a large frog spawn hosting 2 clwns on the sand out of direct light. a Kryptonite candy cane on the sand bed that gets moderate light and grows like a weed. All the softies do well in my tank under LED's. The only deaths I've had in 2 years were Japanese blue cloves (more likely alkalinity related), Liam's cloves, and ATL tripple red zoas. Other than that I seem to get decent growth, certainly no slower or faster than when I had tanks with MH and the same or similar softies and LPS.

I get par readings with the clubs meter (which was suspect for inaccuracy at the time) around 420 at the high end of my rocks under the lights (lights are 18" above the water, rocks are 6-10" below the surface). I keep several colonies (blue, teal, Mike Acardi's teal, jesus, blue tipped, green stags, birds of paradise, pink birdsnets, green birdsnest, blue tenius, pink and rainbow stylos, Green, purple, and rainbow pociliporas, purple, orange, red, and pale green w/ blue rim caps, Blue and red milis, Oregon and toxic green torts, hawkins, sunset, undata, confusa, superman, pawlenenses montis, orange, peach, german blue digis, green sarmentosa, setosa, purple and green slimers, tri color valida, one sold to me as an aquadelight frag but now that it has grown out I think it is actualy a stag similar to Greg Hiller's teal stag, and a couple other acros I don't remember).

Many of these I have never owned with MH, but I can tell you what I think their growth rates are relative to each other under LED's (you would also need to know the % settings and times) and you can draw your own conclusions. Others I have had in both MH and LEDs for over a years growth time.

I would make the same general statements as others, my corals seem healthy and I do not experience RTN, bleaching, color issues etc. that I can pinpoint to light related. I run a single MP40 and get a good amount of flow from my returns. I would say any issue I have had has been related to ALK and my lack of patience with my calc reactor (I want the ph to go from 7 to 6.5 NOW, so I frequently fog the tank).

Some SPS do well as fast growers as expected, others creep as expected. Some have defied their description and surprised me with speed, others with slowness. But in general, all have grown and seem healthy with good poly extension, color etc...

I have a BRS pink mille.. that thing should grow like a weed and gets blasted with light. It is a nice pink color, but no vertical growth at all in any of the milles in my tank. They all spread along the rock as if they are encrusting montis. I have 2 other blue milles that do the same. I just picked up another type of blue mille yesterday, we'll see if it does the same. I had seen similar comments in the SPS forum on RC where people stated they had decent growth in SPS but it was all encrusting, little verticle. I would say my experiences are similar.

The other trouble coral has been Tri Colors. Validas just don't seem to like my tank. I have had 2 of them. To be fair, neither has been in direct light and they are high light corals. They looked good for a while but both have eventually developed RTN. I still can't pinpoint light as the cause though, the first was shortly after an alk episode.

Slimers - for get it. No matter where I put them, they encrust then stop. Zero growth in 2 years.

Birds of paradise, green sarmentosa, orange digi grow like weeds.

Pink birdsnest under a 250 MH I swear I could watch it grow... under LED's it is very slow, for a birdsnest anyway.

I have a RBTA that has decided to become a Red long tentacle instead... it climbed to the top of the rock and loves the light. I had a GBTA that tried to do the same, it sat side by side with the red for months and then dissolved last year some time. The red has looked great for 2 years. I do not feed it, and it does not seem to grow much nor move which is just fine by me.

Looking back I am happy with the benefits of LEDS over the last 2 years. My corals grow and have good color, maybe not as fast as they did under MH but I and my dogs certainly appreciate the lack of heat from MH lighting. In a small house, small room the heat was significant. I also appreciate the limited wiring and sleek appearance of LED fixtures. Aesthetics was important to me given this tank is part of my living room. The electrical savings were not as important to me, but I do appreciate not having to run the AC as hard.
 
Thanks for the input and progression shots. It is very interesting how LED stimulate some corals to only encrust. Since I have switched back to my halide the corals that have heavily encrusted continue to encrust, but much faster. One of them, garf bonsai, looks like it wants to go vertical, but is encrusting upward in a sheet. ( only 4mm of growth like this so far) Single side growth opposed to a stick with polyps all around. It's like some gene for encrusting got switched on and it is now confused that the halide is back.
 
I switched from an aqua medic 250 x 3 150x 2 metal halide to a sol super blue x 4. When I did I found something's grew awesome and others became stagnant or began to die. I have 180 gallon and a 54 corner that ate plumbed together so the water is the same. I was really wondering if I did the right thing. The control ability of the LEDs was awesome the tank looked great but I was losing corals. I read many posts and other people were having great luck with LEDs on the corals I was losing so I started moving things around. I moved a candy cane and a brain 6 different places in my 180 and they never did well. Last week I moved them to my 54 and they sprang right back. In my experience the big problem with switching and coral growth is we assume I'd something did well at a certain depth and placement it will do the same under LEDs. A few inches of depth or the movement slightly in or out of the direct beam of the led makes a world of difference. I think it's just a matter of moving things around to see where they are happy and will grow. Metal halides have a broader coverage area LEDs is more concentrated there is no question about that. I just find the cost savings long term and the heat decrease to make it worth spending the time searching for where the coral is happy.
 
I think there is another sisue with LEDs. The majority of Fish Stores, dont use LEDs, so the new coral you buy might not like the intensity of LED. You cnat dim the LED because there are already other corals doing good in the tank with that amount of light, so you have to put the coral in the bottom, then move it up, and so on.

to me, that sounds like a major PITA. I like to place corals, and maybe move them once, and thats it. After that i jsut elave them alone and let them grow. I try to stick my ahnd in the aquarium as little as possible.

I ahve been building a 40 breeder for 4 months now, I ahve been taking my time and doing a lot of research on LED, and I came to the conclusion that not even the $700 lights have enough info on their websites. Which is why I did the math and I am going with T5 for a couple of years and see what happens.
I found companies that are adding UV LEDs and that seems to help, but those are also fairly new. So for now, I will pay $15 in electricity eery month and use T5 HO.

I am not bashing LED. I am jsut making my decision based on a lot of research and reading and tlaking to people.

I think it would be nice if those companies that sold the $700 LED had a nice and deep test tank with all sort of corals, from clams to mushrooms, and posted par readings and monthly updates as well as monthly water parameters. I think that would really help them sell the LED, and give people a good idea of good placement for corals before they buy the LED.
 
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Metal halides have a broader coverage area LEDs is more concentrated there is no question about that.
is this necessarily true or does it have more to do with the optics/reflectors used for each setup? the CREE LEDs without optics have a 125 degree viewing angle which is pretty broad and can obviously be narrowed significantly with optics. i dont know the coverage of MH lights with reflectors but I cant imagine it's too much wider than 125 degrees but i could be wrong.


I think it would be nice if those companies that sold the $700 LED had a nice and deep test tank with all sort of corals, from clams to mushrooms, and posted par readings and monthly updates as well as monthly water parameters. I think that would really help them sell the LED, and give people a good idea of good placement for corals before they buy the LED.

i think that's a great idea. i'd be a lot more willing to drop that kind of money if they could convince me the light would cover what it would say it would and provide adequate PAR at particular depths.
 
I built a rapid LED set up and had mixed results. I found my SPS grew like weeds but my LPS didn't do as well. I went back the MH and t5s for a bit then got a Ecotech Radion and I'm very happy with the growth of the corals. The only complaint I would have is the reds look orange.
 
It's not that LEDs are not as good as halides, it's just like anything else, if u try to take the cheaper way out (DIY) than your gonna get what u pay for. There is no way a company can charge the average person 500-1500 bucks for a light that won't grow coral. If u put radions, or kessils, or AIs up against halides, I'm pretty sure they will be the same if not better when it comes to growth and color. If u put a cheaper led up against a halide, your going to say halides are better. So if your going to go led, spend the extra money. You'll make up for it in elec. cost and bulb replacement. LEDs are the future. If your not on board yet, you will be sooner or later.
 
is this necessarily true or does it have more to do with the optics/reflectors used for each setup? the CREE LEDs without optics have a 125 degree viewing angle which is pretty broad and can obviously be narrowed significantly with optics. i dont know the coverage of MH lights with reflectors but I cant imagine it's too much wider than 125 degrees but i could be wrong.


It could be the reflectors, I m not sure. All i know is If i simply look at my tank from above i can see the difference a few inches left or right of the led makes. Also if you go to the spec page for the sol blue the graph they show for coverage is very small for the max par range. This link will give you the Par at depth range and show what I mean by its very small depending on light placement and tank depth.

http://www.aquaillumination.com/sol/performance.html

i think that's a great idea. i'd be a lot more willing to drop that kind of money if they could convince me the light would cover what it would say it would and provide adequate PAR at particular depths.

This is also why they want you to put 6 fixtures above 1 6 foot tank. I only have 4 above my tanks and will need to add more. I am planing to add a couple of the new vegas sometime down the road shortly and see if things in the same tank will do well under the different lights from the same company.
 
I should add that my LED DIY kit had no optics. The kit was over a 12 gallon tank so i didn't think it needed optics. The coverage may have been so broad and even that the corals just wanted to encrust.
 
I should add that my LED DIY kit had no optics. The kit was over a 12 gallon tank so i didn't think it needed optics. The coverage may have been so broad and even that the corals just wanted to encrust.

that's good to know about growth vs. encrusting and how focused light may make a difference in how the coral grows. i'm thinking of taking the plunge and testing some SPS in my LED tank. perhaps i will look into placing an optic lens on just one or two of the LEDs to create specific area of more intense light.
 
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