Tank pests: flatworms - How to ID and What to Do?

[me2003]

" believe the sea slugs that eat the C. retrogramma (red/brown photosynthetic flatworms) do work but they just get blown around in a reef tank and never really get the job done "

I added one to my tank. I watched as it ate several flatworms. It disappeared into the tank and never made a dent in the population. I am not sure how many you would need to add to decrease the flatworm population. I tried most of the fish recommended
and none worked. I think you would have to not feed your fish for a long tme before they would eat flatworms. There are people that have fish that eat them.( I have never seen one) I do not know why an individual fish decide it will eat flatworms.

I was able to completly remove all the flatworms by a stronger dosage of flatworm exit and no protein skimming/carbon longer than was recommended. This was my third application. The first time I added flatworm exit most were eliminated but the population returned. I read many threads and the most successful treatment
seemed to be treat once and wait several day until you see a few flatworms and treat again. I also treated when during the day when they were out more. Without knowing
the chemical and it how it works, I am not sure about resistance. It seemed more that they were in areas/states that were not accessed as well by the treatment.

 

[DanStL]

Other flatworms may have a line as well. I have no experience with other flatworms, only these new guys. They seem to have an elongated oval shape, compared to other flatworms. They all come from an unhealthy acro colony - one it was dipped in lugol's solution they came off. Here is another picture showing them:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3414

The color in this picture is the best representation of what I saw them to be in person.

 

[Aquaman_68]

Other flatworms may have a line as well. I have no experience with other flatworms, only these new guys. They seem to have an elongated oval shape, compared to other flatworms. They all come from an unhealthy acro colony - one it was dipped in lugol's solution they came off. Here is another picture showing them:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3414

The color in this picture is the best representation of what I saw them to be in person.

I've seen that pic online in a thread. I hadn't seen the one Scott posted first though. They look to be much different. The one Scott posted seems to look more like the brown FW because of the size. But I think they pretty much all have the line going down the middle under magnification or good eyesite. Who knows .....Maybe there are morphs of this strain that have a different appearance more like the brown ones which are smaller in size. I've read that they can have a different look as well on a post @ RC.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Flatworms

Two years ago I had the "non-acro-lethal" flatworms that are commonly referred to as planaria. They literally covered most of my rock and, although not harmful, were really ugly. I had them in my tank for many months thanks to Little Shop of Pets.

One thing I noticed is that they hate high flow so I increased flow in my main display and decreased it my refugium. I also blew them off of the rocks with a turkey baster until the population in my display tank was almost nil and the population in my refugium was huge. I think the refugium acted as a receptacle for the "blown off" flatworms. The population in the refugium really grew large after a few months while the population in the display tank steadily decreased thanks to the stronger display tank water flow and the turkey baster treatments. The population in the refugium grew to the point that it could not sustain itself and after another month or so began to decline until, after around 3 or 4 months, they were gone.

I try never to add chemicals to my tank....with the exception of Interceptor for Red Bugs. For planaria, I would recommend cranking up the main tank water flow, blowing the flatworms off the rocks with a turkey baster, and a slow-flow refugium to act as a receptacle to contain the flatworms and to increase the population density tothe point that they naturally run their course.

 

[Matt L.]

Chuck,

That is a great suggestion, and one that doesn't involve chemicals. I have heard that like many other plagues, flatworms boom and then one day bust. My tank, with the sump off line, suffers from low flow, and thus perhaps a few more powerheads might solve the problem.

Matt

 

[Matt L.]

Options

Okay,

Based on reading this thread, I have come up with the following options to try. Please comment on them, and the order in which I am willing to try them.

The flatworm plague for me has been particularly depressing, since I had a quarentine system in place. I figure I either got the flatworms from: a) corals at MACNA, upon which the flatworms lay dormant/out of sight for 3-4 months in the quanrentine system, until booming when brought into my display tank, or b) they came in on a Walt Smith pre-cured live rock order.

Oh, and about my system. I have a new 90gal tank which is only a few months old, and consists of dry base rock and live rock/live sand from my previous, established system. All coral frags in the 90 are small, and could easily be moved down to the quarentine tank. My clams could be moved as well, since the quarentine tank has adequate lighting (MHs). I could probably catch all the snails and hermits and send them downstairs as well. The only other large invert in my system is a serpent star who would be difficult to catch.

I would like to try the following options in order:

1. Increase flow on my rocks to see if I can at least keep the flatworms out of sight, or force them to boom in an area of the tank in which they then promptly bust.

2. Try another dose of latworm exit. I have dosed at 1.0x and 1.5x. I would be willing to try 2.0x (or higher?).

3. Try quinine-HCl. I can easily get this -- I just need to know the target dosage. I actually have some lying around. Does anyone have any information on this?

4. Remove the corals, clams, and inverts, and drop the salinity and/or lighting (down to PC) in the main display tank for like a month. The fish will be fine. I worry about writing off the microfauna and the inverts I cannot catch. What salinity will kill the flatworms?

Please advise. This plague has been particularly heartbreaking,

Matt

 

[Greg Hiller]

Chuck,

Sounds like a good methodology for getting rid of them.

Matt,

>Try quinine-HCl. I can easily get this -- I just need to know the target dosage. I actually have some lying around. Does anyone have any information on this?<

I'm not sure that either Oomed, or the Greenex listed the contentration of the quinine in their formulations. You might try experimenting with the quinine with a small rock with flatworms on it in an isolated container and see at what level you have an effect.

 

[Matt L.]

Greg,

What do you think about my idea of dropping the salinity (from 1.025 down to say 1.009) and lighting (MH down to PC) in my main tank? I imagine if I drop the salinity slowly enough (over several days/weeks), the fish will be okay...

Any invert, clam, and coral can easily be gathered up out of the main tank and taken down to the q-tank for the duration of the hyposalinity. That only leaves the live rock and the microfauna...

Do you think this can be done? What damage will hyposalinity wreak on a young tank?

Matt

 

[Greg Hiller]

I imagine that the low salinity will do a number on the flatworms, but it will probably do a number on a lot of other things. I imagine your coraline algae will die at that salinity, and your fish will be majorly stressed. Is there much On your live rock, feather dusters, sponges, other cool critters? I've never really tried using really low salinity in a reef tank. Perhaps others that have will pipe up.

For me, if it is that easy to get your inverts out I would probably just go with a stronger treatment with the Flatworm Exit. But....I will say again....I have no experience with the chemical.

 

[Matt L.]

Thanks Greg. I am really in uncharted territory here and feeling very nervous. I've always tried to do the best job with the creatures in my care.

There isn't a whole lot of life on the live rock, good coraline, but not a ton of life. The CBB did in all the little feather dusters. I had some cool sponges, but they receded with the move to the new tank (I presumed this was natural). I do have sponge stock down in the Q-tank.

Because the tank is young, I feel I can explore such drastic measures, although it isn't necessarily that I want to...

I think I will first try higher flow and a stronger, more lasting dosage of FWE.

Matt

 

[me2003]

If you use flatworm exit you need to remove as many flatworms as possible first.

An 1/8 inch rigid tube connected to airline tubing that siphons into a container
works as a very good FW vac. I used a 5 gallon salt bucket as a container.
It will allow you to vac for about 10-20 min. The siphon is easy to start.
The only issue is siphoning them off the sand. It takes a little practice.

Be prepared to dose with FW exit twice.

 

[Matt L.]

If you use flatworm exit you need to remove as many flatworms as possible first....Be prepared to dose with FW exit twice.

Yes, this would be my third dosing of FWE.

I never had a large population of them -- It is just that a few have returned after each dosing. I have the means to syphon out the visible ones first.

I have now dosed 1.0x and 1.5x the recommended amount. What do you recommend for the third time?

Matt

 

[~Flighty~]

I have a form of the brown ones. They have a little bit of a grey pattern on their back, but no red and they have never been any sort of a problem. I'll see about ten at a time if I really look around. I did notice a big jump in their population when I moved tanks, but it went back to a normal amount as soon as I reseaded my sandbed. Maybe the sand critters eat them? I also think the welks in my fuge and the tiny britttle stars may eat them. I have a mandarin now and I really don't see the flatworms much at all anymore.

 

[me2003]

I believe it is not as much the amount as treating twice in two days.

I can not recommend what I did. I can say that three times the recommended
dosage does annoy acros (They create a lot of slime). Mine recovered yours may not. I believe clams are also sensitive.

A thread from Habib
CEO of Salifert

on dosage
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=525782

 

[me2003]

A thread from Habib
CEO of Salifert

on dosage

If you don't add anything new in the tank then it is pretty sure that there were some survivors who did mutiply again.

Survivors can be there because due to many reasons they did not die when gettting in touch with the FWE or they weere hiding in places (crevices etc) where the water did not get exchanged enough. This would mean effectively a lower dosage and time.


After adding the FWE blowing with a power head in all sorts of places might be helpful.


Also if after the treatment practically all are gone for sure then one can treat the tank again the next day or after two days and allow the FWE to remain longer in the tank, waiting much longer with carbon etc. However, one has to be more alert just to be sure.


__________________

 

[JohnK]

a funny quote from a LFS employee in the last month

"have you seen any of those flatworms in that set of tanks over in that ISLE, in this set of tanks in this ISLE?"

employee
"yea, but don't worry about them, damsels, dragonets (and a couple of other random fish) will eat them no problem, yea flatworms are no big deal".

Somehow I didn't feel too comfortable with this advice