Anyone interested in DIY Surge Bucket (flap valve)

[ScooterNH]

Lots of great ideas. ProJon, thanks for all the explanation. I think after reading your posts that the surge bucket with the capped tube and more than a few holes is going to give the most desireable result. If I can manage to connect up 2 such buckets that's even bettter since as you say, due to a myriad of variations, the cycle times will end up being fairly random.

My biggest hurdle is to handle overflow somehow in case of plumbing problems from the bucket that isn't directly over the tank (placing it over the tank would solve that but I can't think of a way to do so with my lights in the way)
And also to minimize the plumbing in the tank itself (which doesn't look great). Think I have some ideas brewing on both. The black tube with the holes actually blends in quite well.

Thanks

 

[PyroJon]

That's the beauty of the toilet flusher, overflow protection is built in.
That vertical tube that needs to stay open at the top works great as an emergency drain.
If you want more you could put a bulkhead in the bottom of your bucket and run a pvc pipe up to your maximum height then maybe attach a hose and run it along your 1.5" pipe from the bucket right back into the tank. Use zip ties to keep it attached right to the pipe.
I don't even have the pipe, just the toilet flusher.

 

[MarkO]

I am interested for sure, noise really isn't to much of an issue for me. I wish I had some time to read this whole thread........

I know you and I are in the same kind of situation. We've got in-wall tanks and plenty of room for this stuff in our tank rooms.

Looks like it's something I could definitely see myself playing around with, especially since it doesn't look all that expensive. All I think I'll need is a replacement toilet float/valve assembly. As for the source of water, I might as well use the existing sump return pump.

 

[ScooterNH]

Where to put source pump

I originally had placed my pump (to supply the surgebucket) in my main display tank. My thinking was that having it down in my sump would cause too many problems with skimmer levels. As it turns out, for some reason the opposite is true.

This is good since having to put the pump in my display was ugly.

Anyway, with the pump in the display, I see more "variation" in the overflow return volume to the sump.

However, I recently tried putting the pump in the sump (hey it rhymes!), and while it drops my sump level more (because it's a smaller tank) it seems to stay at that level after the initial 5g is sucked up.

My display handles the normal sump return + the 4-5gal occasional surge better I guess. Overall there appears to be more of a steady volume through the overflow which helps with some overflow/float noise I was having.

Your milage may vary, and I'm a little baffled why it's working this way but I thought I'd toss that observation out there.

 

[JBendel]

Hello Scooter,

I assume you have a built-in overflow.... I installed mine with the "pump in the sump" and with some adjustment on the autotopoff ... things worked fine from a sump perspective, but the additional ~2.5 to 3 gallons surge in my display .. caused serious "squealling" from the overflow ... and no wonder since I am using one of those CRA overflows... and my display is 30 gallons.

The design I ended up with was the bare toilet flapper + stem with toilet float and a fishing bobber attached to the flapper (silicone over the metal bobber clip.)

The flow rate from the pump seemed to have the most effect on how clean a "flush" I got.

I 've since taken it apart, since it's too big for this tank and I don't trust the CRA overflow even on a good day, but plan to get a larger tank in a month or two with a built in overflow and then setup multiple surges.

Have you noticed anything with respect to your polyps? ... when I ran mine ... my polyps all seemed to open fuller and standup. The inhabitants seemed to like the effect ... I put a 1.5 inch ouput behind some rock work so the surge came out of many of the openings between the rocks.

Regards,

J.B.

30 gallon display, 20 gallon sump, 20 gallon overhead fuge.

 

[PyroJon]

I have been running multiple surges for the last two and a half years. I feed them from the sump.
The water level in the sump definatly rises and falls with the filling/emptying cycle but I have compensated in terms of skimmer operation and auto-topoff.
I use two 20 gallon surgest on a 180g tank, in conjunction with a closed loop.
My corals and fish both seem to benefit from the resulting random flow patterns. I think that a surge can create great random flow paterns and a closed loop can provide the constant high velocity flow enjoyed by sps, so I feel that they are used best in conjunction.

 

[ScooterNH]

Surgies

I assume you have a built-in overflow....

Yup - it's a 90g with one corner having the slotted overflow.

Have you noticed anything with respect to your polyps? ... when I ran mine ... my polyps all seemed to open fuller and standup. The inhabitants seemed to like the effect ... I put a 1.5 inch ouput behind some rock work so the surge came out of many of the openings between the rocks.

So far I really haven't had it going long enough to notice how the corals react. But my school of chromis seems to like to play in the wash.

I've just mostly been off and on experimenting with different placement of the plumbing and heads and such to get random surges and not staring at a bunch of PVC. (I haven't glued it all yet so it leaks a bit). So it never stays on. My bucket also takes too long to fill up. I haven't timed it but it's a few minutes between cycles I'd guess. I have a larger pump to try. I also might try to get another bucket going with a simpler design. I have some of the parts already. Just a matter of finding time.

It's fun though.

 

[JBendel]

I agree ... this has been a fun project and figure I have learned enough to start thinking about the setup PyroJon mentions .. a couple of surges and some inline in a larger tank.

I found the simple setup works very well (followed PyroJon's description), if you have good flow in the bucket. Since there is no real "hysterisis" in the system ... you need to blast past the trigger point to get good repeatability. ... I found with slow flow ... it would get hung up.

 

[JBendel]

Early prototype

Once I increased GPH into the bucket ... reduced down to 1 bobber, and probably could get rid of the PVC around it

 

[JBendel]

Installed

Tested it over a 30 gallon trash can for a while and then Kluged it into the tank to see how it worked. Next project is to build a hood and get rid of the pendants

 

[ScooterNH]

Thanks for the picts

Thanks for posting the picts. I've got another flapper assembly with a built-in slide float that i might try to use in another contraption bucket much simpler such as yours/pyrojons. Likely cant get to it for a week or so though.

Quick question on your picture. The rectangular structure at the bottom... is that for support only or is that the inlet for filling the bucket?

Thanks
Scott

 

[JBendel]

On the rectangular structure on the bottom ... when I was having trouble getting the bucket to empty completely ... it seemed like the black float was dropping down on the flapper,so I rigged up a frame to hold the float above the flapper.

At the end of the day ... I don't think it mattered ... once I went to a bigger pump ... all operational problems went away.

I hear you on time ... I 've probably got 2 hours invested, but it is stretched over a month.

 

[ScooterNH]

Bucket has been running fine

Finally got around to Permanently installing my surge bucket. Before then it's been off more than on as I twiddled and adjusted. Has been running without a hiccup for a few weeks now. I really should time it to share how often and long it surges for. It's pretty cool. I set it up so that it makes sort of a random wave from back of tank over rocks to front. No leaks or anything either. Maybe some day I'll hook up a second one.