Advantages of a Ca reactors?

[rtc_reefer]

Hello,

I am currently dripping Calcium Chloride via a pump at 9 ml per hour into the sump and maintaining Ca levels at 430 (rock solid). Why would I entertain the addition of a Ca reactor, if I am maintaining Ca levels using an alternate Ca supplementation system? I would like to contrast the advantages and disadvantages of both systems.

Thanks.

 

[ReeferMedic]

More importantly, how stable is your alkalinity?

 

[rtc_reefer]

I'm also pumping ALK (Randy's two part) at 6 ml per hour and that is steady at 11.0.

 

[rtc_reefer]

All parameters are stable.

 

[Jim Tansey]

The major advantage is you can set it and forget it, fill it once and your good for up to a year.

Jim

 

[Greg Hiller]

Over time your system will increase in salinity. Then you will remove some water and add DI water back. Then your magnesium will be low. Some tanks also consume magnesium which will drive it even lower. You can of course add magnesium back to compensate, but that can get expensive if you are using something like B-ionic magnesium. Of course you could make your own magnesium supplement with Epsom salts, but then your sulfate levels will start to creep up in relation to cloride and other counterions in your water. Then (is this starting to get long winded yet?) you could try and find someone willing to give up some of the magnesium chloride we got in bulk a few years back so you could make a balanced supplement similar to B-ionic magnesium, but don't bank on it.

Bottom line...for small tanks this works fine. Water changes can bring everything back in line. For a large tank with a high calcium demand a calcium reactor is the way to go.

 

[rtc_reefer]

Well, I just had a huge response to this and hit cntl-X to cut a word and... the entire response dissappeared! So I'll have to start over... bear with me...

 

[rtc_reefer]

Thanks Greg!
Ok.. so here goes again:

Ca Reactors have been reported to be a set-it-and-forget-it possibly for up to a year whereas a dosing system may require weekly/monthly refills depending upon how big the reservoir is for the media.

A dosing system may result in a gradual increase of salinity , which could be compensated for in either decreasing the salinity of water changes or removal of water and allow the topoff system to refill.

A dosing system may deplete Mg. Must have a pure form of MgCl to supplement also. (I have Red Sea MgCl to supplement )

Any other's that I should know about prior to deciding whether or not to put forth an effort to implement?

Thanks!

 

[zear0]

isn't there a cost advantage to the reactor?

I guess the cost of a ca reactor is pretty high, but it sounds like you are dosing at least CaCl and MgCl which cost money. Also, factor in the cost of your time spent doing regular maintenance (tweaking dosages/salinity) and the dosing pumps and I think the reactor may come out on top.

 

[rtc_reefer]

CaCl and MgCl are basically free. (ice melter) 50# bags for $7.00 and I may use two cups every other week. Dosing pumps were $45 each
So I may have a total of about $120 invested.

How much is media for reactors and how much does one use (120 gallon SPS)

isn't there a cost advantage to the reactor?

I guess the cost of a ca reactor is pretty high, but it sounds like you are dosing at least CaCl and MgCl which cost money. Also, factor in the cost of your time spent doing regular maintenance (tweaking dosages/salinity) and the dosing pumps and I think the reactor may come out on top.

 

[Michael Mota]

Rick,
I too do the same thing and seems to work really nice for me. i use a two channel peristaltic pump for the two part cal and alk (randy holmes-farley recipe) and i use epsom salt for the mag. I do do a water change every month though. cheap stuff

 

[rtc_reefer]

Yeh, I have the two pumps but as I indicated.. I found Red Sea "MAG" MgCl in Danvers Hardware which will not add the sulfates!

So I tossed my Epsom salts.

Rick,
I too do the same thing and seems to work really nice for me. i use a two channel peristaltic pump for the two part cal and alk (randy holmes-farley recipe) and i use epsom salt for the mag. I do do a water change every month though. cheap stuff

 

[Greg Hiller]

>Yeh, I have the two pumps but as I indicated.. I found Red Sea "MAG" MgCl in Danvers Hardware which will not add the sulfates!

So I tossed my Epsom salts<

Well....there's a little more to this, chemistry wise. If you are using Randy's two part method your Mg will drop as mentioned above. Randy's 'two part' also includes the addition of Epsom salts (MgSO4). With Randy's system the chloride builds up over time, and the addition of MgSO4 helps to control the loss of Mg, and off set the build up of chloride with a buildup in sulfate (SO4). Trouble is, since Randy's system only uses MgSO4 the sulfate builds up too quickly. Randy knew this but figured people could do simple water changes to control, which is true on small to moderate sized tanks. The reason he did not include MgCl2 in the magnesium supplement is that he could not find an inexpensive easily obtainable source for MgCl2. We did a group buy on a very high quality MgCl2, and it's possible that the stuff available from Home Depot (I have seen it) is of a similar quality, but then it might not be. I've had long discussions about this with folks. This is ice melt MAG, and they are not likely very careful about transport and contaminants, then again, maybe they are.

Back to my concern about you tossing your Epsom salts:

If you start using ONLY MgCl2 then you will actually get too high in chloride.......SO......the best method if you are using Randy's system is to used a different ratio of MgCl2 to MgSO4 that you would use if you were looking to JUST adjust the magnesium level in a tank that was not using his system.

All of the details about this are in the thread in the group buy forum about the MgCl2 group buy we did, but I will post the details below as well.

http://216.235.242.50/forums/showthread.php?t=3568&page=1&pp=40&highlight=magnesium

With a tank using Randy's two part method use this receipe:

865 grams MgSO4.7H20 (Epsom salts)
730 grams MgCl2.6H20
plus water to a total volume of 1 gallon

If you are looking to JUST supplement magnesium then use this receipe:

664 grams MgCl2.6H2O
113 grams MgSO4.7H2O (Epsom salts, from the drug store costs $1.99 for 3 lbs)
plus enough DI water to make 1 gallon.

 

[stevenp]

Dosing pumps were $45 each

Rick, out of curiosity what kind of dosing pumps did you find that were this inexpensive? I remember looking a while back and they were pretty pricey.

Steve

 

[rtc_reefer]

Thanks Greg. You know .. now that you mention it, I did read about the mixing of Epsoms with MgCl to balance the Supplement. I will start mixing and dosing in that ratio for that supplement. and of course do water changes.

I called the importers of the Red Sea MgCl suppliers (somewhere near here because I was willing to travel to get a few bags directly from them) and they sent me to Danvers Hardware and indicated that the Flakes and the pellets are equally pure.

In my gallery on RC, I have pics of the MAG product I'm using.
Just gotta convert those grams to cups! I'll figure it out...

Thanks buddy!
Looking forward to meeting you Nov 20.
Rick

 

[MarkO]

Well in your case (if you don't mind making the additions), I wouldn't bother.
My calcium reactor cost me about $400-500 to set up. But now that it's running, I can go away on vacation and really not have to worry about adding supplements. It's kind of a laziness factor

 

[rtc_reefer]

Rick, out of curiosity what kind of dosing pumps did you find that were this inexpensive? I remember looking a while back and they were pretty pricey.

Steve

Dosing Pumps

They have battery backups and are adustable from 1 to 300 ml/hr. Also you can program them to dose a specified ammount then shut down. They have no-flow alarms and two volume settings.

Pretty cool

Rick

 

[rtc_reefer]

That's kinda what my conclusions are here too. I can have the pumps draw from a five gallon bucket if I so choose... So I could go away and have no worries either...

For the cost I think I did pretty well in the design equipment.

Well in your case (if you don't mind making the additions), I wouldn't bother.
My calcium reactor cost me about $400-500 to set up. But now that it's running, I can go away on vacation and really not have to worry about adding supplements. It's kind of a laziness factor