build your own Ozone reactor Link here

[G.T]

I never use an external air pump for the ozone. The venturi affect will draw the same amount of air wether an o3 unit is attched or not even with an air dryer. You can get away without using an airdryer although you will lose anywhere from the 35 to 50% of ozone production. The more moist the air the lesser amount of o3 created. Plus no one has mentioned the 2 differant ways of making ozone? There is the cheaper less efficient bulb type and then there is the corona discharge tube. The letter being the most reliable. Ozone is good at water clarity your light will penertrate easier as the water is crystal. The same clarity would be very difficult to maintain using carbon plus the removal of important elements with carbon use. O3 should not be used to artifially lift orp levels. If this is the case then there will be residual o3 present in the system which certainly will not be appreciated by the fish at least.

 

[Matt L.]

Nitrification

Matt, thanks for piping in.

If it involves nitrification, you can always call on me.

...When I mentioned the bioballs/nitrification question I was actually seeing possible increased nitrification as a bad thing like having a little wet dry on a reef, possibly throwing the nitrification - denitrification balance most of us seek for our reefs off, leading to nitrate accumulation...

Okay, the best way to view the nitrification process is as something that occurs at a rate you more or less cannot control. In an established system, nitrification occurs at the rate nitrogenous waste is produced.

If nitrification cannot keep up with the rate of waste production, then you would observe an ammonia or nitrite spike, as those intermediate products accumulate. Nitrification cannot proceed faster than the rate of nitrogenous waste production (there would be nothing to nitrify).

Denitrification is another issue. It occurs at a much slower rate in our aquariums, and because it is an anaerobic process, our established systems aren't well suited for denitrification (hence the slower rate). Some people are very lucky and get good denitrification, but it is hit or miss. For me, in my established system, denitrification occurs at a slower rate than nitrification, hence I observe nitrate accumulation. I eliminate this nitrate by water changes and macroalgae.

So you are right that there can be a nitrification/denitrification imbalance, but that can only come from denitrification not happening fast enough. For those reading along, one can't over nitrify.

The case with mechanical filters is that they alone provide no means for denitrification, and therefore, nitrification occurs without denitrification. Bioballs don't create nitrate anymore or less than live rock, the difference is, live rock can denitrify while bioballs generally cannot (worse, bioballs can trap detritus in an oxic environment, leading to more waste and more nitrate).

So in closing, don't worry about increased nitrification -- it is already happening at the maximum rate in an established system.

...I have read (speculation or observation ?) that o3 can actually lead to increased nitrate accumulation but I have no ideas on the details of this......

Again, this could not be possible. Nitrification occurs at the maximum rate in your system already.

However, it is possible for ozone to chemically oxidize nitrogen to nitrate. This is simply nitrification without the bacteria (abiotic). Still, this can't happen any faster than nitrogen is produced.

...Also wondering about your thoughts on another question, would nitrifying bacteria be able to survive in an O3 reactor or would the O3 nuke the bacteria that it was exposed to such as in a reactor?...

Bacteria can survive in amazing places, but they'd probably be nuked by the ozone. They may grow higher up in the reactor or in a place where ozone has broken down into oxygen, since they are oxic organisms, but again, that oxygen from ozone won't make them go any faster.

...I totally agree with your comments re O3. Thinking and reading about it reccently has led me to think of using ORP measurement to monitor trends in the system but not try to use O3 to artificially rasie the ORP to distorted levels....

I agree too. Chances are, no one's ORP prodbe is that accurate anyways! Including mine.

...It has also led me to consider low level use of O3 (with a controller to carefully control it's administeration) with the goal of inproving water clarity and maybe other potential benifits (debatable, this is why we're all talking right). That sounds kind of counter intutive, but I'm saying, determine your existing ORP values, then possibly add small amounts of O3 in hopes of stabilizing swing to some degree and in turn improving water clarity without the hassle and potential drawbacks. If I'm getting it right, If you don't push the limits of O3 application then the risks are very much minimized / negated.

That sounds very smart.

Ozone, if used properly, can be very succesful,

Matt

 

[JohnK]

Matt, Great point about nitrification being limited by the available waste to nitrify. I've read over and over about this regarding wet drys, ozone exct... I never thought it made much sense. Even Delbeek and Sprung, the reef aquarium vol1 talks about increased nitrate production in the ozone section, left me scratching my head wondering how.

This ozone thing is starting to give me a headache (he he get it )

 

[Matt L.]

Nitrification Take 2

Jim,

No need for a headache (I actually like the smell of ozone, oddly... I know its not good for you). Just remember, nothing you do to an estrablished system can make the rate of nitrification increase, except get your fish to poop faster.

Matt

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

I used a cheap FB900 Lifeguard Fluidized Bed reactor and modified it. I used the top ports for water in/out: The input water goes down the narrow channel right to the bottom of the reactor. The output water is taken from the top of the reactor. The unit has two ports on the bottom. I plugged one with the suppled plug. I drilled the other plug, slipped ozone safe tubing through it and stuck an ozone friendly airstone on the end then screwed the end cap on the unit. So ozone and water meet at the bottom of the reactor. In this way the ozone gas has a column of water above it to increase its partial pressure and hence increase its reactivity with the water. Since the ozone makes contact with the water first directly at the injection point, contact with the plastic container is almost eliminated. This is true since ozone quickly binds to the water, especially under pressure, which increase oxygen saturation in the water and avoids the corrosive effects of ozone on plastic or other materials.

Then I run the output water into a second smaller lifeguard FB600 filter filled with GAC. I input the water at the top for this reactor and take the output water from the bottom. The flow rate of the water is a little more than around 1 gal/minute. The Enaly ozone generator is controlled via X10 and my Octopus with an ORP set point of 400 mv of electrical potential. I also run an intake airfilter with a sock over it to minimize dust intake from the surrounding environment. Lastly I have a small ozone safe Denerle check valve between the ozone generator and the reactor. This is required since the reactor is run under pressure. I need one more mod which is to add an extenal pump with an air valve to the generator to increase and contol internal pressure inside the reactor in order to optimize the ozone reactivity with the water.

I'll post pictures of the setup tonight if anyone is interested.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

So far I smell no ozone and my water looks more clear than it ever has. The water is so clear that it looks like I just got new brighter bulbs!

 

[Liam]

Chuck,were your orp levels low,and if so how quickly were you able to raise them with the pressurized system?
thanks.

 

[shark bait100]

Aquaman 68 I am building the same reactor, what kind of valve are you using to control the ozone into the reactor? The plans call for a certain water level to be maintained thru pressure regulated by a valve. also, are you just injecting ozone through the top or through an ozone friendly airstone?

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

ORP Levels

When I first installed the generator and reactor I measured my
ORP at 270 mV. After running it continuously for around 12 to 15 hours the ORP measured around 330 mV. However, two things obscured the ORP measurements:

1. My ORP probe was not recently calibrated or cleaned for both measurements (It is now! ). The difference in the two ORP values should still be valid since they were measured under the same conditions. But the absolute ORP values may be biased.

2. ORP tends to vary naturally, increasing at night and decreasing during the day from the respiration of the animals in the system. This "natural" change was not factored into the difference in the two measurements. Therefore the 60 mV change in ORP can not be fully attributed to the ozone.

What I can say for sure is that my water clarity improved over a very small amount of time (2 days). Also the hair algae that used to stick to the rocks is falling off and/or is much more easily removed. It is sort of wasting or "melting" away with bubbles emanating from the patches of algae (mostly red cotton candy and some hair algae). Since I have not changed anything else in my system, I have to attribute these good results, with a very high probability (but not 100% conclusively), to the efficacy of the ozone generator and reactor.

Chuck,were your orp levels low,and if so how quickly were you able to raise them with the pressurized system?
thanks.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Wow this EDIT feature is really great when you type as bad as I do!

 

[Aquaman_68]

Aquaman 68 I am building the same reactor, what kind of valve are you using to control the ozone into the reactor? The plans call for a certain water level to be maintained thru pressure regulated by a valve. also, are you just injecting ozone through the top or through an ozone friendly airstone?

I control the output from the pressure on the air pump. This also controls the height of the water in the reactor. Tetra luft pump can handle pressure long term so this is the one I suggest you use with a reactor. The ozone is pumped at the top with out a stone . The 03 sticks to the bioballs & the water that passes thru reacts with it inside the reactor. Any small residual amount of ozone can be removed from the output by adding a cup of GAC in a mesh bag directly under the stream of water.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Bioballs

That's the thing that bothers me with this design. If the O3 is pumped into a partially empty container, it has the ability to react with anything that is not ozone resistant, including bioballs. That translates to less ozone going into the water. I also use bioballs in my reactor but they are totally submerged.

Am I missing something here?

The 03 sticks to the bioballs & the water that passes thru reacts with it inside the reactor.

 

[starrfish]

Brian & Chuck - would you mind posting pics of both setups? Brian, I know you posted a pic earlier in the thread, but could you post a close up pic - I'm interested in the inputs/outs.

Thanks for sharing guys! This is very helpful.

Daire

 

[Aquaman_68]

That's the thing that bothers me with this design. If the O3 is pumped into a partially empty container, it has the ability to react with anything that is not ozone resistant, including bioballs. That translates to less ozone going into the water. I also use bioballs in my reactor but they are totally submerged.

Am I missing something here?

The bioballs are totally submerged. You just run the water level right above them. I beleive the bio balls I used are ozone safe.

Daire, I'll post a pic after I eat & wash up. (& probably nap !!)

 

[Aquaman_68]

That's a reactor not an ozonizer. I posted the plans for an oxygen reactor with an ozone reactor in mind. It's basically the same design without the ozone generator after the pump. This link was just to give you an idea as to how it works & how you can build it. Pretty much add a little creativity to the mix & you can build one like this below. I used those plans to build this one. Same principle different materials. You can pretty much build one from an old skimmer waste container or also those new media chambers they sell. Much bigger than the one coralife sells & better made than that molded plastic peice of garbage. By the way...At least 50.00 dollars of that top figure is for the tetra luft pump. It is expensive but worth every penny as the diaphram can be replaced when it wears out not like cheap air pumps. (when they wear you toss them out) The luft pump also has a dial to adjust air pressure & it is super powerful!!!

It's a pretty simple design. It has a tubing fitting tapped into the top of the unit for the air line (ozone injection...Make sure the fitting is ozone safe as well as all other materials used to build this) & also another fitting tapped into the top for the water feed. (I use 3/4 OD hose to connect to the fitting on both intake & output)
Look at the vertical pvc pipe with the union in the pic. That is the return to the tank. Notice it is connected to the chamber below the egg crate that's inside the chamber. (the bioballs sit on the egg crate) I raised this output so I could sit my reactor right in my sump & have it splash over the first baffle onto my carbon mesh bag. (the GAC bag is in it's normal sump location between the baffles that reduce the bubbles back to the tank.) I later on attached a 3inch pvc pipe about 4 inches high to the side of the baffle directly under the return. At the bottom of the PVC pipe I fixed a section of eggcrate with small holes & tie wraps. Then I stuck another mesh bag inside that area filled with GAC. So the water went thru two mesh bags & a distance in the sump before it returned to the tank. By that time all traces of ozone have been exausted.

As far as Chucks method of a post ozone carbon chamber......I'm not a fan of forcing water thru a chamber of GAC. It removes too many other compounds too quickly. (don't take this the wrong way Chuck)

HTH everyone with an inquiring mind......
B

Sorry I couldn't attach the pic...you'll have to bring up two windows for the pic on the first page!!

 

[denvig]

Does this help

 

[denvig]

Where are you injecting the ozone above the bioballs or are you running a line down in the reactor below waterline to an airstone?

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

setup

I did not have time to post pix tonight....my hot water heater tank broke and was leaking. I had to drain it and the hot water lines in my house.
I'd rather be reefing

Yes I think that hashing things out is a great way to learn. Brian, no offense taken...we are just working as a team to assess the ozone reactor design. I think that we can all learn something here by sharing our designs, thoughts, ideas together. Everyone benefits!

The GAC chamber is to uptake residual ozone and is technically not part of the reactor. The GAC chamber is not pressurized since the water flow into it is really low and an the incoming water drips into the GAC slowly. Also, since there is little if any gas getting into the chamer it is not pressurized. This chamber is not required but I included it just to be sure that no ozone gets into my water. I could have used a bag of GAC instead but the chamber just makes things neater.

The nice thing about the airstone submerged in water is that the ozone contacts the water first and you do not need to build the reactor of ozone resistant material. Then the water/ozone mixture is forced through the bioballs in the chamber to increase dwell time in the reactor and finally exits out of the top of the reactor.

I finally received a better check valve with less resistance on the ozone side. This combined with a stronger, external air pump will allow me to further pressurize the reactor to maximize the ozone injection process in the reactor.

My water clarity continues to improve. The algae is melting away amd the cyano that is usually on my sand is completely gone!

Daire, I will try to take pix and post them tomorrow. Hopefully I'll have new water heater installed by then.

This is a great thread...let's keep up the good discussion.

Brian & Chuck - would you mind posting pics of both setups? Brian, I know you posted a pic earlier in the thread, but could you post a close up pic - I'm interested in the inputs/outs.

Thanks for sharing guys! This is very helpful.

Daire

 

[Aquaman_68]

Where are you injecting the ozone above the bioballs or are you running a line down in the reactor below waterline to an airstone?

No line or airstone inside the reactor. Ozone is injected at the top cover of the chamber as well as the water input. The forcing of the water into the chamber pushes 03 downward with the water over the bioballs. (setting water level is about 3/4 of an inch to 1 inch down from the top cover) The bioballs are there to give the 03 & water a better contact time before returning to the sump. There is about a 2 inch space between the cover & the eggcrate that sits on top of the bioballs. This is another piece to the puzzle of making the reactor more efficient & increase contact time between the 03 & H20.
HTH explain it a little better for you.

Question for Chuck. Are you using the original gasket to that bed filter? Is it ozone safe? Ozone is very unstable & will attack everything in it's path. (even with your setup) You might want to look into it if your not sure. I changed all gaskets & seals on my unit to make them ozone safe. A little leak because a gasket wasn't ozone safe & prematurely fails can end up becoming a big problem.

B

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Reactor and Noises in the Night

In contrast to the saltwateraquarium.com design, my reactor's ozone injection point is under water. I was hoping since 03 reacts rapidly with water that ozone resistant materials are less important with this setup. No leaks yet.......but I have bigger problems: My Enaly OZX-300U ozone generator is no longer producing ozone. Last night I heard 3 loud snaps, after which I noticed that the ozonizer became really loud. I disconnected the output hose and there was no ozone smell. I then opened the unit and found burn marks inside the front cover.

I guess you get what you pay for....$50 for the generator. Can you recommend a better unit and a source to buy one? I need a 300 mg per hour unit to replace the Enaly. My home freshwater water heater also broke last night....what next?

Question for Chuck. Are you using the original gasket to that bed filter? Is it ozone safe? Ozone is very unstable & will attack everything in it's path. (even with your setup) You might want to look into it if your not sure. I changed all gaskets & seals on my unit to make them ozone safe. A little leak because a gasket wasn't ozone safe & prematurely fails can end up becoming a big problem.

B