Complete SPS Loss, and only took 48hrs...No idea of the cause

[STiTCH87]

No fewer frags is not going to help, that is where you are wrong. And why you need to quarantine and treat all incoming corals. Acclimation over a few more hours is not the answer Either. the corals will either make it or not. the quarantine gives you a buffer so you do not affect you main system and the treatment will also disinfects the corals. personally I find treated corals do far better, color up faster and touch down/attach faster.

No one is trying to beat you up. many of us have been there and learned the hard way. Your best bet is to quarantine and treat for long term success. Try and look at what we are trying to convey try not to dismiss perspective as you disagree with part of the message. We are sharing what we have been through and learned.

^^^ This. Exactly. It takes literally months to years for a wild harvested coral to be as hardy as it's captive grown counterpart, mostly because it in itself has to become aquacultured basically.
Fish can be faster, but coral takes a long time. But that only makes it hardy, if a coral is sick, it's sick. And it will, as Greg said already, either live or die.

If you have the means, the BEST method, is to rule out other possibilities for loss. This is done via dip, drip, quarantine.

It's not that anyone does anything wrong in the hobby necessarily, it's more so that many have not learned certain things, and nobody has learned everything.

Hell, I had my water tested from the 40g when it crashed, and it showed bacterial strains of vibrio. Where that came from? Who the heck knows.

Sorry for the losses. I had a tank wipeout and it was devastating, but at least I knew why (cfl bulb feel into the sump)

I 100% agree on dipping. I dip everything and most of the time I replace the plug.

QT though? I get the theory of doing this for coral, but I'd like to know who honestly QTs their coral? Not talking fish, coral only.

A few of us on here do that. I have two tanks, and all new corals I get go into my smaller tank to monitor. There's barely any coral in there so if the tank crashes, it's only the new frags that die. Anything that lives beyond a week looking great, going into my main 16g system.

My smaller tank is a 10g with no controller, hand dosed, no ATO which means I have 100% hands on husbandry aside from it having a heater of course, so I guess 99%. This forces me to look at the tank a minimum of twice a day, which really ensures I take a good look at every coral for monitoring. I don't QT fish or inverts though. But I also don't buy them unless the LFS has had them for at least 4-5 days with zero signs of stress or illness, and eating well.

It's a PITA, but it works. I have had zero issues, and zero loses on fish, inverts, and corals in the past half a yea i've been in this routine. Literally, zero coral loss. I had one frag do poorly, which I did QT back to health, and sell. But it was dying due to my tank setup not being proper for the species (i.e. too direct of flow and too high of light PAR) tough to get indirect flow in a nano sometimes. That was a frogspawn, believe it or not. Something so simple to keep for most reefers.

 

[Joshbd]

No one is trying to beat you up. many of us have been there and learned the hard way. Your best bet is to quarantine and treat for long term success. Try and look at what we are trying to convey try not to dismiss perspective as you disagree with part of the message. We are sharing what we have been through and learned.

Honestly, I did not intend to be be dismissive, nor do I feel beat up. I very much appreciate your and everybody else's perspective, opinions and significant experience. I think it's safe to say we are all trying to learn and understand how best to create a successful, sustainable reef tank within the personal limitations of time, space and money. Unfortunately, what this means for me, is that setting up a dedicated quarantine tank just isn't feasible. I wish it was, and I very much appreciate the benefits, but such is the problem with being a reefer confined to a small condo. So, I only dismissed the QT as a solution because I must for now, not because I thought it wasn't the right call for me or others in the long run.

Given that having a reef tank under these conditions creates additional risks, I'm also trying to find other things I CAN control to help mitigate these risks. One way is certainty to treat/dip all incoming corals. I apologize if I didn't specify this as a "take away" in my prior post. I can assure you it was not dismissed and is indeed something that I plan to do consistently going forward. While I am still interested in a deeper understanding of what exactly it means to "disinfect" a coral as it relates to RTN and bacterial issues, I very much agree that its beneficial and contributes to long term success. It is usually part of my regimen, and should have been in this instance.

In terms of longer acclimation or adding fewer corals at once, I'm still a little confused why this wouldn't potentially reduce the risk of loss? Wouldn't adding fewer corals at once make a large scale loss less likely even in a QT tank. If I add 4 corals to a QT tank at any given time, and 2 die for whatever reason right off the bat, I've only put 2 other corals at potential risk from the spread of bacteria/disease. If I add 10 corals, and 4 die, I've put 6 corals at potentially even greater risk of contracting the disease/infection, no? Similarly, wouldn't the death of a single new frag in a display tank be less likely to harm the other inhabitants than the death of three new frags? I guess, as a reefer, the mantra "slower is better" has been instilled in me from day one, which is why it seemed logical that my failure to do so in this case had potentially contributed to the loss.

Lastly, can you clarify what you mean be "either coral will make it or not." It makes me unhappy to think that certain frags are simply predestined for failure in a new tank, and that there aren't things within our control that would at least improve the chances of survival. For example, wouldn't slower acclimation (and dipping) potentially help reduce stress thereby improve the likelihood the frag's success?

Again, please, please don't take anything here as dismissive or argumentative. I promise it's not intended to be. Just enjoying a friendly discussion so that I, and hopefully others, can learn and have the greatest chance of success going forward.

 

[delta]

Sorry for the losses. I had a tank wipeout and it was devastating, but at least I knew why (cfl bulb feel into the sump)

I 100% agree on dipping. I dip everything and most of the time I replace the plug.

QT though? I get the theory of doing this for coral, but I'd like to know who honestly QTs their coral? Not talking fish, coral only.

If the corals RTN you remove the risk of setting of a chain reaction. It gives you time to make sure you didn't miss something or that the corals will acclimate to your system. AS well allows you time to make sure the corals handle the treatment. It is a fail safe.

Even the best practices are not 100%, all it takes is one something to slip by. You get one AEFW and you are screwed. While some manage them in tank, they are no joke and you will always be behind as your corals are under constant attack. So if your are not on your best game they will take their toll every time.

It is really up to you, but I have found stuff even after treating.

this was just something I found in my quarantine, I post it as the person who sold me the coral had no idea they had them in their system. Since it never hit my tank it came from theirs, so it was useful information for them and everyone they sold corals to.

 

[Joshbd]

If you have the means, the BEST method, is to rule out other possibilities for loss. This is done via dip, drip, quarantine.

Couple of quick questions. I usually acclimate (drip), then dip. Am I doing it backwards, or does it not matter either way? Also, I assume you use tank water for you QT, or is it freshly made salt water?


Interested to know, could or does quarantining lead to the increased survival rate of new frags (as opposed to simply not putting existing SPS at risk). What if I took two "identical" frags placed one into a QT tank and one into the display tank. For sake of argument, let's assume both frags are captive grown from the same colony, dipped, and healthy in appearance. Would perhaps the one in QT be more likely to survive the first week because it wasn't exposed to additional stresses, such as toxins/bacteria from other inhabitants? Also, wouldn't that same QT'd frag be exposed to those stresses eventually once it's placed into the display?

Or alternatively, as I think it was said before, is it purely a matter of chance if a frag survives no matter where it's put, and the sole purpose of QT is to protect your existing corals?

 

[eric90gal]

What is that??

 

[Joshbd]

What is that??

Majano anemone perhaps?

 

[jdeb101]

Threads like this are another reason I think we should all participate in what was discussed here http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?145512-How-many-have-backup-corals

 

[STiTCH87]

I don't think there's necessarily a right or wrong order between dip and drip. But I could be wrong.
And I think that looks more like a nudibranch than an anemone personally.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

In addition to quarantining...buying only one coral at a time will further reduce your risk of losing lots of money. If the one coral dies in quarantine not biggie. But if you buy lots of frags and you lose them ....more lost money. The worst case is if you buy lots of corals and do not quarantine them....the most lost of money (and time). You also have to look at your investment cost and time you spent on your current acquisitions and compare that against a quarantine system cost. If you have $5,000.00 worth of corals a quarantine system's cost is small in comparison to losing all your corals. If you only have 3 corals in your display tank then the cost of the quarantine system will most likely exceed the potential loss. BUT...in all cases you will lose the time spent in cultivating the corals in your display tank and I feel in ALL cases you should quarantine.