Fake maricultured coral?

[dz6t]

I recently purchased a couple "maricultured" mini SPS colonies and wondering why they don't have encrusting bases. Normally these species of coral will lay down heavy encrusting base when shooting up branches. After close inspection, I found they were just glued to a cement base without any growth on the base. I am wondering if these coral are truly maricultured.

 

[ro_nicu]

considering how may people are after a quick buck out there it would not surprise me the slightest, but, there might be an explanation to it. How about you ask the seller to send a question up his supply chain.

 

[s_kelley]

Maybe the main colony that the frag came from was maricultured

 

[saltwaterB]

You know, now that you mention it...I have been seeing some very questionable maricultured Corals come through in the last year...

I would venture to think that there are some companies out there...not actually culturing and just "chop shopping" and selling them as Maricultured...which is really a $h*ttY thing to do...but there are terrible people all over the world that will try and make a fast buck....Hopefully the wholesalers and importers will take notice and stop buying Corals from folks tat do this...

 

[ro_nicu]

Assuming that you do sell those corals retail and you did not question your supplier to the point where you are either satisfied with the product or refuse to take it in, What makes you feel that somebody else along the supply line will do that very thing and lose money while you did not?

No pun intended; assuming all of us would do that there would be no market for this kind of products and those activities would go away, ...., assuming, ....

 

[saltwaterB]

Assuming that you do sell those corals retail and you did not question your supplier to the point where you are either satisfied with the product or refuse to take it in, What makes you feel that somebody else along the supply line will do that very thing and lose money while you did not?

No pun intended; assuming all of us would do that there would be no market for this kind of products and those activities would go away, ...., assuming, ....

Sorry for my ignorance...but I don't understand your question/comment???


I think you mean this; but I may be wrong.


Yes, if no one buys them...then one would hope that the supplier would stop ordering them....the problem is these seem to be mixed in amongst many true maricultured Corals. So the suppliers may not even know where they are coming from...also the fact that some one will still order them....like in the case of MANY Fish that do not survive in captivity...the should be left in the ocean....Now while I NEVER order certain Fish because of this...I still (for 24+ years) see them on suppliers availability lists...and see them in stores. These are Fish well known to NOT survive on captivity. One would think this theory would work here,,,but it doesn't. mostly due to the ignorance or lacking of caring, and many times lack of knowledge, as there are many shop owners that have very little to no experience, knowledge, or regard ...people will just order and buy what is pretty or looks good regardless of the impact...it is truly a shame...

So while they should go away...they never do....

 

[jselzler1]

'Maricultered' means the corals are propagated overseas and grown out in shallow protected lagoons, at least Live Aquaria's definition. Why cant they frag a colony just before shipment? It would still be Maricultered, no?

 

[reefstarter]

Ok have to chime in on this . how can you tell if a coral was grown in a tank or harvested from the ocean ? seeing how NOAA and other reglatory agencies seem to be cracking down so to speak and the simple morality of not making a huge impact on the worlds reefs . It would be good to know . as for fish same deal . When I start stocking my tanks in my "cave " I want them all to be either tank raised or aquacultured live stock . I know when I got some coral from Dong it opened up right away in my tank . The fish I get from B don't hide and eat like pigs . what else to look for ?

 

[dz6t]

Mariculture corals are supposed to be grown from small fragments in natural sea water and under sunlight near the ocean or in the ocean.
They are planted on cement bases and normally have plastic tags with time code and species code. That is why you always see maricultured coral with a cement base. Coral farm do not chop maricultured coral before shipment because these coral are shipped out as soon as they reach a saleable size, normally 2 to 3 inches. Some rare and more expensive coral are shipped out as small as 1 to 2 inches.

 

[ro_nicu]

I have some mean comments in regards to this, especially related to stores / shops that "advocate for maricultured coral", but I will restrain. Bottom line is, IF SOMEBODY REALLY WANTED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS IT WOULD GET DONE, THE VENDOR IS KNOW, THE STANDARDS ARE PUBLIC, THE ENFORCING AUTHORITY WOULD BE AT LEAST OPENED TO IF NOT WILLING TO INVESTIGATE.

 

[delta]

Mariculture corals are supposed to be grown from small fragments in natural sea water and under sunlight near the ocean or in the ocean.
They are planted on cement bases and normally have plastic tags with time code and species code. That is why you always see maricultured coral with a cement base. Coral farm do not chop maricultured coral before shipment because these coral are shipped out as soon as they reach a saleable size, normally 2 to 3 inches. Some rare and more expensive coral are shipped out as small as 1 to 2 inches.

Can you show me where it states this as Fact/Law or otherwise? As I have seen them grown both ways in a mariculture environment. A colony grows faster than a smaller fragment so growing as colony would be more efficient in the long run and make more sense.

 

[CoralJunkie]

I remember watching a video on YouTube where it showed people diving into the ocean where they basically had gigantic frag racks tabling downward as it gets deeper. Picture a frag tank but the rack is 100 times the size of the tank and coral colonies the size of your head

 

[dz6t]

Can you show me where it states this as Fact/Law or otherwise? As I have seen them grown both ways in a mariculture environment. A colony grows faster than a smaller fragment so growing as colony would be more efficient in the long run and make more sense.

There is no law about this just a common practice over sea.

 

[dz6t]

A colony grows faster than a smaller fragment so growing as colony would be more efficient in the long run and make more sense.

That actually is not quite 100% correct.
There are many factors in mariculture coral. What people are currently doing is more efficient and the cement bases also can serve as markers for mariculured coral in order to differentiate from wild cut.

 

[delta]

Lots of conjecture here Dong. And while I understand your concerns you only have the faith you have in your vendor to do their best to make sure the corals are coming from where they say they are.

 

[Flame Angel]

I know that I am not 100% versed on maricultured corals... I thought the last time I had seen a few the lot# labels were encrusted into the plugs.

Sort of similar to a seal on the back of a tractor trailer shipment certifying the origins of the product.

If someone told me that was a maricultured coral... I would question it if the seal was not present.

(Again, I am not versed in their process and is is only an observation that I made)

 

[saltwaterB]

I have some mean comments in regards to this, especially related to stores / shops that "advocate for maricultured coral", but I will restrain. Bottom line is, IF SOMEBODY REALLY WANTED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS IT WOULD GET DONE, THE VENDOR IS KNOW, THE STANDARDS ARE PUBLIC, THE ENFORCING AUTHORITY WOULD BE AT LEAST OPENED TO IF NOT WILLING TO INVESTIGATE.

What???? What are you even saying?????

Maricultured Corals are a great thing...for the Hobby, the customer, and the natural Reef...

Again, I don't think I am getting where you are coming from at all....

But you really have no clue how business and especially the ornamental Aquarium trade works, if you think it is as simple as that...
Trust me, myself and many other shop owners have tried for years to get certain Fish and Corals put on a do not collect/import list...signing petitions, public voicing, and legislation....but it has never been able to go anywhere...

and unfortunately there is no enforcing authority...except for all of the wholesalers, aquarium retailers, and customers...

 

[saltwaterB]

I know that I am not 100% versed on maricultured corals... I thought the last time I had seen a few the lot# labels were encrusted into the plugs.

Sort of similar to a seal on the back of a tractor trailer shipment certifying the origins of the product.

If someone told me that was a maricultured coral... I would question it if the seal was not present.

(Again, I am not versed in their process and is is only an observation that I made)

Unfortunately this is not always true...there are MANY companies and farms doing this and more and more popping up everyday. So it would depend on which company did the Mariculturing. and I have even seen several different bases coming from the same Mariculture farm (as many times they are still experimenting on the best methods to do this...

But the one thing I know is that generally the thought is that the corals are fragged and left in the ocean for a minimum of 3-6 months to grow out...But as mentioned there is no laws about this, and this was just what the standard had been from the get go....
Now I can totally see some new or shady companies not sticking to this just to rush product out...or companies pulling certain corals before their "time" due to the demand for said Coral....And policing anything in a third world country where these are coming from is next to impossible...if it were, please sign me up for that job....
Then one has to question what mariculture really is....what is the point if it is just fresh cut frags....that is NOT mariculture at all....

 

[ro_nicu]

What Meant B is that if there was a will in the retail market to put an end to this "immoral / illegal coral trade" there would have been a result.
Unfortunately, just like every other commercial entity out there the fish store has a bottom line and as long as it's not up to the size of walmart it can not really dictate where those corals and livestock come from.

If you really wanted to have a supplier look into than just call customs and report the fact that you highly doubt the origin of their product conforms with the label, I bet they will move really FAST and EFFICIENT, especially if there's a difference in the tarif applied.

That's all I wanted to say, that if the retail market would not value its own pocket higher than their declared principles there would be no market for these "fake maricultured" or "endangered" species.

 

[saltwaterB]

if the retail market would not value its own pocket higher than their declared principles there would be no market for these "fake maricultured" or "endangered" species.

Agreed 100%

Here in lies the problem.....there are WAY TOO many wholesalers and stores that don't know and don't care....
Trust me there has been more than just a will to stop this for well over the last 20 years...but the train keeps on rolling...usually right over us as we try and stand in its way....

we have been trying to get Moorish Idols to be not collected for 20 years.....but they still bring them in and tons of store still sell them...they should be left in the ocean. But they are not

Back in the day, tons of Corals were dyed and dipped in ink to attain certain colors....this has finally slowed down...but does still happen, and this is downright deplorable.

Customs would not care, not would they have anything to do with this....the only governing body over this industry is US wildlife and game...and I am pretty sure if you called them they would have no idea as to what you are talking about....and trust me they do not help....as they are one of the biggest killers of Saltwater livestock there is... I can tell you countless situations where Wildlife an Game as seized a 20 box order of Corals (over 400 pieces of Coral) because of a few pieces in question, and sometimes they actually mis identified something. And they let all of the Corals die...ABSOLUTLEY DISGUSTIG AND OBSURED...but that is there protocol...and they do it with Fish as well. But yet, they are supposedly protecting the animals....yeah right....BUt they are Federal agents and you can't tell the how to do their job....hell they won't let you tell them anything....they will just detain you for speaking out....I have seen it...