Megaflow drain surging

[Pat02026]

My megaflow drain is surging bigtime. Every minuite or so i get a few burps, then it smooths back out. Anybody have a solution to this problem?

 

[JohnK]

There are a few things to fiddle with.

First, is the drain into the sump submerged? If it is, is it vented somehow so that air can escape (reverse duroso is usually the soultion)?

 

[Pat02026]

well it is the aga/durso setup. What I think its going to end up being is the hose from the standpipe bulkhead to the sump inlet tube. theres a bit of a "trap" for lack of a better word. I am assuming this should be a straight downhill shot from the tank to the sump. I have a 4-5" dip in the hose before the entrance to the sump, so I am guessing I am getting an air pocket in the drain hose. I have played with the height of the standpipe and it changes the frequency of the surging, but doesnt eliminate it. I was hoping it would go away as the sump filled to operating level, but my water is topped off, and Its still doing it. I was thinking maybee theres something obvious that I overlooked, and I probably answered my own question above. Just looking for experienced opinions since I am new to this external tank plumbing.

 

[mikenjo]

you said you have a durso drain pipe at the tank but where the drain goes into the tank
does it just flow in or is there a reverse durso at the sump
here is a pic

 

[Pat02026]

You know, I should have picked up on that I misunderstood. No, there is not. The hose is directly attached to the pipe that goes into the sump; it is louvered from the bottom to 3/4 to the top, with one last louver just under the grommet where it enters the sump. I would bet this was a poor/cheap attemp at letting the air escape before entering into the drain chamber but just not efficent enough. Hmmm I wonder if I should take a trip over to lowes and pick up some fittings.... I could easily accomplish that, and it would be cheap too. while I am at it I can straighten out that hose too.

 

[JohnK]

well it is the aga/durso setup. What I think its going to end up being is the hose from the standpipe bulkhead to the sump inlet tube. theres a bit of a "trap" for lack of a better word. I am assuming this should be a straight downhill shot from the tank to the sump. I have a 4-5" dip in the hose before the entrance to the sump, so I am guessing I am getting an air pocket in the drain hose. I have played with the height of the standpipe and it changes the frequency of the surging, but doesnt eliminate it. I was hoping it would go away as the sump filled to operating level, but my water is topped off, and Its still doing it. I was thinking maybee theres something obvious that I overlooked, and I probably answered my own question above. Just looking for experienced opinions since I am new to this external tank plumbing.

It'll work better and be more consistent if you hard plumb the drain line, otherwise every little movement of flex hose will mess with the drain. Also, air needs to be able to escape where it hits the sump. Mikenjo's pic shows a good example of the "reverse duroso" (see PVC cap with little holes drilled in it.)

 

[mikenjo]

add the reverse durso will quiet it down completely the durso should be larger diameter pipe at least 1.5 in the one in the pic is 2 in

 

[Pat02026]

Ok i made it to lowes before they closed; I picked up a couple tee's 2 caps and 2 6' lengths (I got 1" and 1.25" since I wasnt 100% on which size the drain was and I didnt want to be stuck with the wrong one) Now being that they are such a small diameter and since I walked in as they were locking the door I could not find a nice sweep tee. I only have a straight tee. I figure if I make the vent extension high enough I shouldnt have any splash out issues from the vent. If it doesnt work, I will go back tomorrow or hit a plumbing supply house to get the correct tee. I will let you know how I make out I am going to get to it now. Thanks guys!

 

[mikenjo]

if the drain is 1in i would make the reverse durso 1.5 in it will be quieter

 

[Pat02026]

My only option right now is to go with 1.25" on the 1" drain. I can modify it later on if I am not happy with it, since this is all I have on hand. I glued it together, now I am going to have a bite to eat and let it dry before I drill the holes and install it. Looks as though you have five holes on yours, about 1/8" maybee? Any rule of thumb for that? Or just a couple small holes will do?

 

[mikenjo]

it depends on how much flow thru it, drill a few holes in it then add more until the flushing stops every setup is different

 

[Pat02026]

ok cool. I am just letting the glue set up before I install it. I drilled five holes 5/32 to start we will see how that works. Thanks for the help. Your basement sump turned out great, its too bad I am on the second floor and have to keep it small and contained to one spot so a large sump is out of the question. My biggest issue right now is space under my cabinet or should I say lack there of and I have yet to figure out what I will do about a skimmer. I have a red sea but its a piece of crap and I figured out today that it doesnt work so I need to find one that will fit in my sump with a meere 24" of height and a very tight squeeze to get it into the sump from the front of the cabinet.....

 

[mikenjo]

what size tank and sump do you have there are some nice skimmers that have a small footprint.five holes should be plenty on the durso

 

[Pat02026]

Its an AGA 65 with an Aqueon megasump3 which near fills the entire cabinet space. well I ran the fitting under some hot tap water to be sure the glue wont weep anything into the system, and reconnected everything. It is much better but still slightly surges with the return valve wide open. I am only running a Rio 2100 return pump, which I thought would not be sufficent enough but it seems as though more holes will be needed on the durso, or I will have to keep the flow at 80% to keep it from surging. I am happy with it for now though, I will tweak it out this week to make it perfect. Ive got plenty of time to play with it while it cycles!

 

[mikenjo]

try another hole or maybe go up to 1.5in with a y instead of the t fitting

 

[Pat02026]

Will do. I know I can get the same sweep tee as you have in 1.5" so I will pick one up and bush it down to accept the 1" sump and drain hose. I may also either go up one size on the holes, or try 6 instead of 5 on the durso. Thanks again, Pat

 

[mikenjo]

no problem good luck with it

 

[Pat02026]

I re-plumbed my tank as best I could with this sump I have. Off the drain tube which is 1.25" is a 90* elbow to clear hose (nylon reinforced) to the upgraded 1.5" drain tube into the sump w/durso vent.

Now a few questions;
how far below the water line in the sump should the drain tube extend?
Now that I can see the flow through the drain hose (it was not a transparent hose before) I can see that the water draining out of the tank is only consuming half of the 1.25"id drain hose volume with my return pump running full throttle. Does this indicate that I have an inadequate return pump? Its a Rio 2100 (I know I know thats next on the list to get a higher quality pump!)

It has completely stopped surging which I am super happy about. Now I just want it to stop sounding like a waterfall!! Its not terribly bad, but I really think it could be much quieter. Thanks, Pat

 

[mikenjo]

i have mine at about three inches below the water line.when i had the smaller sump i put a 90deg elbow on the bottom to smooth out the flow but it should not be nessesary.how much flow does the rio put out

 

[Pat02026]

Heres the specs:
Max Flowrate: 675gph
Max Head Hight: 8'
Power Watts: 25w
Outlet: 3/4” OD (1” OD with hose adapter)
Powercord: 6'

Flowrate Chart:
Head Height______GPH
0'_______________675
1'_______________650
4'_______________360
6'_______________200



The flow path from the pump exit to the discharge nozzle is exactly 46" of 3/4" ID tubing vertical the whole way plus about 6" of horizontal loc line in the display.