Newbie In wall setup

[aemenard2001]

Hi Guys,

I also posted this over at reef central.

My long delayed tank project is starting to pick up some speed. I have an unused 30'x30' room on my first floor (it was a workshop for building boats). I have decided to turn the room into a rec room and build out a 12'x8' tank room with a 180 AGA tank built in so that 2 sides will be visible in the main room.


My questions are ...

1. I have the AGA stand for this tank. Is it a good idea to try to incorporate this into the wall so my carpenter won't have to try to build a stand? (I'm sure he's never built one before and I'm not super handy).

2. Is this size room a good size?

3. A side note I have the AGA tank sitting on a table and not its stand. It is currently empty. Am I hurting the tank (i.e. weakening the seams by putting extra pressure on them.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[NateHanson]

First of all, WELCOME to BRS! (flashy cartoons will have to come from a more computer savy reefer)

Sounds like a nice project! I'd look for plenty of advice from folks who have built similar setups, to make sure that you're thinking of everything, because as a newbie it could be a steep learning curve jumping into a tank project of that magnitude.

As for the stand, personally I'd sell the stand and have the tank framed into the wall. Otherwise it will look odd in my opinion. Also, the doors on the front of the stand will be unecessary with the tank room behind the tank. I think you'll get a better looking room in the end if you go from scratch rather than trying to cobble together the wall and the stand.

Just make sure you make clear to the framers how much weight the new stand needs to hold up!

Nate

 

[MarkO]

I put my 150 into an existing wall. If I were to do it again I'd probably rip down the wall and build another around the tank.
Also, you'll probably want to bring the tank as flush as possible with the wall. With an existing stand, it might not be that feasible.
Another thing, I built my stand out of pressure treated 4 x 4's and 2 ' 6's. The stand can probably support my house, but it cost less than $50. So I'd sell the AGA stand (if you can find someone to buy it) and save your money for what you want to put into the tank. Be prepared to spend some $$. Probably around $5,000 for a 180 reef.

 

[MarkO]

I also recommend putting the tank in an area where you and your company will be quite often. It will be the conversation piece in your 30 x 30' room, I can guarantee that.

As for the tank being supported, I'd try to lay it down normally and support all four corners. Even when it's full, most of the weight will be distributed through the corners. Well at least that's how it should be. Try not to support all the weight in the middle. I had a tank crack that way.

 

[PenMan]

Try to isolate the tank and stand from the wall if possible. The vibrations and noise of the pumps is a real pain if tank is tied directly to the wall.

 

[NateHanson]

Interesting point. You could have an expansion joint of sorts between the wall and the tank/stand. Maybe just a 1/4" gap with foam rod and caulk.

 

[aemenard2001]

Thanks for the quick response guys,

>Sounds like a nice project! I'd look for plenty of advice from folks who have built similar >setups, to make sure that you're thinking of everything, because as a newbie it could be a >steep learning curve jumping into a tank project of that magnitude.

I've been scouring this site, reefs.org and reefcentral looking far ideas and I'm willing to consider any advice anyone wants to offer. It is a big project , but the one thing I have in my favor is that I'm not in a rush. I want to try to do it right.

>Be prepared to spend some $$. Probably around $5,000 for a 180 reef.

That's pretty much what I'm expecting. Luckily my wife is fully behind the idea so we aren't working at cross purposes. Hey she talked me into the Tunze streams.

>I also recommend putting the tank in an area where you and your company will be quite >often. It will be the conversation piece in your 30 x 30' room, I can guarantee that.

That's the plan. I'm re-doing the whole room. And the tank is a big part of the remodeling.

>Try to isolate the tank and stand from the wall if possible. The vibrations and noise of >the pumps is a real pain if tank is tied directly to the wall.

I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to bear that in mind.


It looks like the stand will be on the auction block in the near future and I'll plan on building it into the wall.

 

[~Flighty~]

When I started I knew we wanted a 120 gallon plumbed to the basement, but we went ahead ang got a complete 58g setup off of ebay to get the feel for saltwater first. That was a gigantic help and ended up saving a lot of money and problems. The tank and stand were ugly and scratched, but it really helps you understand the stocking and water and equipment issues before you're doing it for a large system. It helped keep me from being impatient too.

 

[dedfish]

You may want to check out this site: http://www.melevsreef.com/280g.html

If you've been looking arround on RC chances are you probably have seen his thread. He post here once and a while too.

 

[aemenard2001]

You may want to check out this site: http://www.melevsreef.com/280g.html

If you've been looking arround on RC chances are you probably have seen his thread. He post here once and a while too.

Yeah, that was one of the sites I plan on showing to the carpenter in a week or two.

 

[aemenard2001]

When I started I knew we wanted a 120 gallon plumbed to the basement, but we went ahead ang got a complete 58g setup off of ebay to get the feel for saltwater first. That was a gigantic help and ended up saving a lot of money and problems. The tank and stand were ugly and scratched, but it really helps you understand the stocking and water and equipment issues before you're doing it for a large system. It helped keep me from being impatient too.

That was how we had planned on starting too. I originally went looking for a 55gal system. After doing research I kept hearing how larger was more stable, so the size of the tank inched up.

As we are remodeling the whole downstairs it made sense to plan for the final system. We need to put down flooring for the rest of the downstairs, plan the heating system revamp, etc...My house has no interior load-bearing walls so I was uncomforatable putting even a smaller tank upstairs. You would be too if you met the man who built it , It was his first house.

In the end I'm hoping the larger system will be more forgiving of mistakes.
Plus I have mastiffs, I must just like "big".

 

[~Flighty~]

Bigger is more forgiving for chemestry and water mistakes, but not for equipment and "stuff". For example, if you get LR that you are not happy with, you will be out big money. If you find out that you should have moved the 180 tank two more inches from the wall once you have the tank full of rock, sand and water, you're skrewed. I advocate a smaller cheep, used "practice tank" to play with as you work on the big tank project. See a cycle for yourself. Figure out the plumbing and see problem points. Find out what you like on a smaller scale first. We did it at the same time. Small tank cycled while the big tank stand was being built. The setup cost us $200 and saved us a ton of money and headaches.

 

[NateHanson]

I'll chime in behind Cindy too. I think mistakes are inevitable in a hobby as complex as this. Sounds like you're reading a ton, and doing extensive research, and I'm sure that will pay huge dividends for you. But I've found that some lessons were impossible to learn without making the painful mistake that really taught me the lesson. If you stay in the hobby long enough, at some point you'll probably loose multiple fish, a handful of corals, maybe even a whole tank (although I certainly hope not) in some mis-event (infection, mechanical failure, power outage, etc).
Those catastrophes are probably more likely for an unseasoned beginner, and considering the magnitude of potential losses in a really large tank, I'd be wary of going through the beginner mistakes on such a big scale.

Just one opinion.
Sounds like a great system you're going to end up with!

Nate

 

[aemenard2001]

Sorry for the delayed response guys, the flu has laid me low for a few days.

I have been thinking about my options for a smaller starter system and my reasoning for going with the 180gal.

I would prefer to not put this tank on my 2nd floor. Due to the design of my house my floors have a lot of flex to them (No interior load bearing walls) and I have 2 boisterous mastiffs who can get the floor bouncing pretty good. It's not exactly a trampoline but you can feel it. I could mitigate this by placing it against an outside wall, but I am concerned with the effects on the tank of having a 250lb dog jump up and down next to it. And the puppy is a jumper.

This is why I had wanted to put the tank on the slab on my first floor. The downstairs is only partially finished and the in wall setup is going to be part of a complete remodelling of the downstairs. If I were to go with a smaller setup it would require that the project be done in stages which would be difficult as I will be laying flooring outside of the entryway and the fish room. Or I will have to build the inwall setup for the 180gal. and leave it empty as I set up a smaller starter tank.

The thought of a complete tank loss in my 180gal. due to my inexperience leaves me ill. I'm just not sure that an intermediate system will work for me due to my circumstances.

Andrew

 

[Scuba_Dave]

I ran a 29g, then a 60g hex & a 55g before I setup a larger tank. The experience of what works & what doesn't is invaluable. I learned a lot in 1 year, and made my 125g setup that much better. I have learned even more with the bigger tank, which will help when I setup the next (VERY MUCH BIGGER) tank

 

[NateHanson]

I don't think a little flex in the floor would cause a problem with a small tank on the outside wall, but I don't know your house. A 29g or 30g tank is a nice intro and won't take too much time/money away from your major basement project. It'll also give you something pretty to look during the year or more that it'll probably take to get the big tank running in the basement.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
Nate

 

[aemenard2001]

Guys, After consulting with the Mrs. I'm gonna try to figure out the costs of a 75-90 gallon system which might let me do some of the fish who got voted off of the reef.

I am still concerned with the amount of jouncing the tank might take upstairs.
Does anybody have any personal experiences that might allay my fears?

 

[~Flighty~]

What about a small system upstairs? a 29 or even up to a 50 or 60 gallon should be fine next to a wall or in a corner. If you do go straight to the 180 (I agree that it sounds like a great setup to end up with) get lots of help with the design and go really slowly with the livestock. New tanks are tough and new reefers make lots of mistakes, that's just the reality. You have to expect some losses, and it is just easier to deal with on a smaller scale. For example, many problems will be helped with a few %50 water changes. That is pretty easy on a 29 gallon tank, but on a 180?

You're way ahead of the game by being online and having a resources like this forum to use. Don't take everything anyone here says as gospel, but if five people tell you you don't want an undergravel filter, or you shouldn't buy that Ritteri anemone for the new tank, listen.

EDIT: oops, you were typing while I was

 

[~Flighty~]

Figure out which way the joists run, and put the tank perpendicular to them. A corner tank would be even better.

 

[NanoReefer]

You can always put floor jacks in the basement to keep the floor from moving upstairs.