questions about Carbon dosing , nitrates and PO3 limiting

[reefkeeper2]

The "forever" part isn't really forever. It's just that if you get a system acclimated to carbon dosing and then just stop you will have issues because A, all that bacterial biomass will die off causing low O2 and releasing whatever nutrients back into the system, and B because that system won't have any other adequate means of nutrient control to take up the slack. I see no reason why you couldn't wean a system off of carbon dosing, it would just have to be done deliberately.

But yes, carbon dosing is not something you do once to fix a problem. It's an ongoing strategy just like growing cheato, running GFO, or even regular water changes.

Also FWIW I take a very different approach from Paul. He is meticulous and very attentive, I won't use those words to describe my approach to my tank I run a steady, modest vinegar dose and rarely adjust it. I always have some nusiance algae but not a ton. I don't consider my tank to be ultra low nutrient at all. I just use the carbon dosing to keep things managable without a refugim or other major nutrient removal other than skimming.

Your approach is not that very different from mine. Your continuous steady vinegar dose is comparable to the biopellets I use. I just take an extra step with the vodka if I feel I need to.

 

[reefkeeper2]

Reefkeeper - prudent to observe and not over-react. what were your NO3, PO4 readings prior to introducing your carbon dosing? Sounds like you run biop + vodka as well? I would figure biop would be sufficient? whats your bioload like?
I'm looking at a biopellet reactor for my 250g total volume system, heavy bioload (lots of fish only currently while frags are in QT); this will be an all SPS setup.

doing the feeding i like and biweekly WC i still get NO3 of 25ppm in this display.
So reefdynamics reactor will be on order next week to get nutrients lowered before frags go in.
running GFO currently with a plan on taking GFO off line at least initially while biop cycles up.
-Greg

My tank has drastically changed in the past few months. You have to remember I had a crash and the tank and sandbed are new. I went from many large sps colonies to frags. The fish population is the same (about 40 fish) and I feed a lot. I have fat fish. I have been dosing for seven years and don't remember what my original values were. Right now NO3 and PO4 are non detectable. NO3 is always undetectable in my sytem with the biopellets. I dont use GFO but sometimes use lanthanum to knock the PO4 down.

 

[reefkeeper2]

Important point Paul. The issue with dosing is unlike many of the things we manage in a reef tank we can't test for carbon dosing. So as Paul is saying observation is your best test. Also Paul reiterates my point that if you keep it hard fast in the fact this is the dose and stick to that regiment you will really be no where different than just running a tank without it. As once it hits it natural balance it will stay there.

Little off topic But Paul's observations are like a doctors in how he keeps his reef. When he sees something he implements things and will watch the reaction to his tank and adjust accordingly. But that is the time in the hobby has he and he has it dialed in. If you have never seen Paul work you are missing something very cool.

Your going to give me a big head

 

[gwdemos]

I like the concept of biopellet reactor because I feel it will suit my system and long term goals in conjunction with my style of maintenance. First off my goal is a heavy bio load (fish) and SPS only setup, heavily skimmed heavily fed, no intent in Refugium, ATS, regular dosing. I prefer to tune a reactor in and let it do it's thing naturally. I had a tough time with two part type dosing and moved to a Ca/CO3, now stable, so a pellet reactor is a sensible approach for me.

Very astute comments Delta.

I will add that I recognize the limitations of the standards of parameter testing we have which is why I favor observation as a critical matter of success. At the same time knowing salifert gives me consistent 25 ppm NO3, I know it's time for me to introduce carbon dosing to balance out before I add frags from my qt.


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[gwdemos]

For those that implemented Biopellet reactors: were you ever testing/dosing Iodine, Potassium, etc.? changes on these elements before:after biopellets?

 

[reefkeeper2]

I always dosed iodine because I have always had gorgonians in the tank. I have never tested for or dosed potassium. I know Zeo users do. Zeo is carbon dosing on steroids so it might be interesting to see how or if other types of carbon dosing depletes these elements.

 

[JasonandSarah]

Is carbon dosing the best way to control Doc? I currently run bio pellets and my nitrates are undetectable but my phosphates get a little high at times 15ppb Hanna checker. Recently I added some dry rock(I cycled but not long enough) to my tank and I don't think I cleaned it good enough so there's allot of nasties being released.

My biggest problem is my zoanthids and favias are not doing good because of the algae and I don't want to lose anymore stuff. I've always contemplated vinegar dosing because I believe phosphates and doc's are my main problem? I have a lot of sps and they are all doing great. Knock on wood Lps as well.
Cal-460
Alk-11
Mag-1400
No3-0
Po4-15ppb
ph-8.3
I run bio pellets, rox carbon, gfo and dose 2 part with a doser also dosing acro power, iodine,strontium&molybdenum

 

[reefkeeper2]

Dosing more carbon will not help if your nitrates are at zero. You have a nitrate limited situation so phosphates will not come down further. Are you sure of the reading? My tank was often in the same situation. I used an algae turf scrubber and sometimes lanthanum to get rid of the phosphates. If your sps tolerate gfo, you could just use a little more and change it out more often.

 

[JasonandSarah]

I'm only as positive as my test kit So not that positive. I do run gfo but now that you say that I'm intrigued... have sps been known to be intolerant of gfo? If so what's the best way to control phosphates? I'm not very familiar with lanthanum chloride and Idk if I want to continually use it?
Anyone on here familiar with the newer "All in one bio pellets"? Or is that just bio pellets wrapped in gfo?

 

[reefkeeper2]

A lot of people have experienced STN with the use of gfo myself included. I think you can lower phosphates too low and too fast but that is only a guess. If you are already using it with no adverse effects , why don't you just try a little more? It should solve your problem.Lanthanum is cumbersome because you have to filter out the precipitate before it gets to your tank. I don't know anything about the new pellets.

 

[ro_nicu]

carbon dosing will only lower the phosphate to the point where nitrates are absent, then the nitrate becomes limiting.