Sick Fish makes me sad. Help.

[ericwebster]

Hey Gang,

Its a long read -- but I would love any advice that you can give!

So I purchased a Blue Tang about a month ago .. he was doing great in my main tank -- eating VERY well -- getting along with other fish etc. But he was showing signs of ick. So I was feeding him garlic and anti-parasitic food -- trying to reduce the stress in the tank and tried "Kick Ick" in the main tank.

This didn't work. He would be better for a few days and then the cits would come back. I tried getting a cleaner shrimp and a neon goby to help alleviate the symptoms. Again to no avail.

So a hospital tank was setup and was cycled for a few weeks using an old filter from the main tank, There is plenty of aeration, water flow and large pvc elbows for him to hide in. I planned on doing hypo salinity.

The catching in the main tank was very difficult but I finally got him. He was freaked out to no end.

I placed him in the QT/HT about 4 days ago. I have had the lights off .. plenty of fresh air in the tank but he remains on the bottom of the tank not swimming around or eating at all.

He has lost most of his color and I am starting to get scared that I am not helping him any way.

I know its recommended to treat all the fish in the tank for ick .. but that would require breaking down the tank as the damsels are not going to go quietly.

I could probably easily net one or two of the clownfish and add them to the QT. I think he is just scared and alone -- maybe this would help?

The last water prams on the QT were fine, although I will do some more testing today.

Where should I go from here?

 

[GinaD]

Hi,
Sorry about your fish. I know I get very attached to mine.
I did a search for you and found a thread discussing ich treatments.
Give it a read and you may find your answer.
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28418&highlight=ich+treatment

I also had an ich problem and here is what was suggested to me from MattL:

I wouldn't waste time and money on cleaner shrimp, garlic, and other supposed cures. Cleaner shrimp are not guarenteed to clean the Ich, and can be a real nuisance when trying to target feed. Moreover, buying a cleanr shrimp ignores the underlying problem, in that the fish has Ich for a reason.

There are only two approaches to dealing with Ich as Jim mentioned. One approach is to simply eradicate Ich from your system, just as Smallpox was eradicated from humanity. Your fish can't catch the disease if it does not exist in your system. The other approach is to manage Ich within your system. The disease can be present, but the fish do not succumb to it. On a daily basis, we come in contact with all sorts of horrible bacteria and diseases, yet we don't get sick. When healthy, our immune system readily handles these diseases. But when someone is immunocompromised, diseases that they normally would handle readily can become infectious. The same is true for your fish and Ich.

One option you have is to eradicate Ich from your system. This would involve removing all your fish and placing them in a separate treatment tank. In the treatment tank, you would go through a hyposalinity process for 6-8 weeks. Meanwhile, in your main tank, the Ich would be unable to complete its life cycle and be eradicated without a fish host. This is very difficult, since first, you need to set up and cycle a separate tank for treating the Ich. Then, once the fish are introduced, everything added to the system, every frag, rock, sand, and invert, as well as every fish, must be quarentined. The fish can go in the hospital tank for 6-8 weeks. The problem is, with fish in your main tank, the frags and inverts must go in a separate system of normal salinity for 6-8 week so any Ich parasites can complete their life cycle and die without a host. This is all a major undertaking.

The other option you have is to manage Ich within your system. When you see an outbreak, you need to ask yourself why your fish has Ich. In my opinion, fish usually succumb to Ich when they are immunocompromised, which for them, happens with stress and malnutrition, the same as with humans. Check to make sure your parameters and husbandry are optimal. Check that nitrate and phosphate are low, that you are using RO/DI water, and that the conditions in your tank are not too crowded. Also check that the fish are receiving a balanced diet. When you are in the option of managing ICh in your system (as I am), a spot here or there is nothing for alarm, as long as they clear up right away and are located on the dital parts of the fins, and come no more often than every few weeks at most. Ich can be the canary in the coal mine, so to speak. It can be an important warning sign that something in your system is not right.

I hope this helps. Let's go Red Sox.

Matt

 

[ericwebster]

Hey Gina thanks for the info .. im going to read it but I just wanted to update the situation.

I did complete water tests today and noticed that the NITRITE levels were vey high. I quickly made up some water and did about a 45% water change.

I also took some of the dry/live rock out of my sump and put it in the tank to help convert that NITRITE to NITRATE.

I also have Prime water conditioner which it states can be used in an emergency to de-toxify nitrite/amonia.

I am pissed that I though my tank was cycled after two weeks and it obviously was not. I am killing my own fish with my carelessness!!!

 

[MikeG]

Unless you are going to treat all of the fish, the parasite will still be in the display and when you stress out the tang to catch him and move him back after treatment he will most likely get it again just from the stress of being moved. I think you are doing more harm than good by moving him around if not treating all inhabitants and leaving the display fallow for 6-8 weeks.

 

[ericwebster]

Well thats the problem.

I plan on getting a fish trap and trying to catch the blue guys that way. Just did not know a good time to move over the other fish. Seeing at the QT is not cycled .. its probally not a good idea to move them over now.

Should I move the tank back to the main tank while the other is cycleing -- or just do lots of water changes?

 

[Jocko]

Well the problem is that your QT probably was "cycled" but when you put a big fish in, the bioload suddenly jumped up. It would take a while for the bacterial population to catch up with the new level of waste production. Was there any livestock in the QT during the cycle period? This is why I hate the popular notion that a tank being "cycled" is like a step you check off from a list and thats that.

If you took the fish back out, then the waste production level in the QT would drop and the bacteria population would return to its previous super-low level. I think putting some live rock in the QT was probably the smartest thing you could have done!

 

[MikeG]

Should I move the tank back to the main tank while the other is cycleing -- or just do lots of water changes?

I'm not sure which would be more stressful, leaving him in or taking him out only to have to catch him again in another week or so. FWIW I always put some live rock in my qt when you move fish in there. I also try to use an appropriate size qt when possible. Up until recently I only had a 10 or 20L but now I have a 65 as well for any larger fish. I keep one tank running all the time with some rock in it and a hang on filter.

 

[JohnK]

I have a trap your welcome to borrow if you'd like - (send me a PM)

To deal with Ick (assuming that's what it is) your best bet is to move all the fish and treat them all together - or try to manage it by leaving the fish where they are, minimize stress, and keep doing water changes until that nitrite stabalizes.

As has been said, removing and treating one fish is likely to cause more stress for that fish and not help much at all with the parisite (because the fish you treat will be stressed and get reinfected right away anyway).

Edit; just re-read. Keep doing water changes in the QT, catch the other fish as you can, it'll probally take a while. Like Jocko said, it the QT was cycled before it may just need to catch up. If you have a filter sock or mech filter on the display, I would also throw that into the QT to import some more bacteria..

 

[ericwebster]

Thanks for the comments guys!

was there any livestock in the QT during the cycle period

No I took a large piece of phosphate filter that had been in the tank a while and packed it in the mechanical filter of the QT.

I have placed some more live rock into the QT just so it catches up quicker.

I'll keep on with the water changes.

Jimmy I may take you up on the fish trap offer.