Still don't understand ich, please explain.

uhupong

Well-Known Member
BRS Member
If we got a fish that is infested with ich from lfs then may be I can asume that the tank at lfs would contaminated with ich too, right?

How do they get rid of those disease since usually their water system is centralized.I'm confused on how lfs conqure this problem.

Also as for hobbyist, we are suggusted that we quarantine the fish in hospital tank. But how many people have hospital tank that active and is cycled properly ? Won't we subject that poor fish to even more harm of ammonia toxic?

Thanks all
Pong

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i have always used garlic exream to fight ick and i have never seen it again in my tank. when ever i get a new fish i start feeding garlic
 
I understand but is it a clear cut scienctificly proven method to remedy the problem?

Don't ich infestation wipe lfs stock out cmpletely eventually?


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I don't know about LFS or other people but for myself, if I want to buy a fish, I would take a small tank and place live rock and water from my main tank in there. I will run it like that for couple weeks, then I would buy the fish, leave it in there for another 2-3 weeks before I place it in the main tank.

Ich can come from LFS but also can just appear in your own tank out of nowhere. from my experiences, if I don't change water and don't take care of the fish tank, ich can just appear out of nowhere. Other people will have a better explaination for ich. But I think Ich can just appear in any tank if the water is dirty and the fishes are stressed and not healthy.
 
I'm confused on how lfs conqure this problem.

Also as for hobbyist, we are suggusted that we quarantine the fish in hospital tank. But how many people have hospital tank that active and is cycled properly ? Won't we subject that poor fish to even more harm of ammonia toxic?

Thanks all
Pong

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LFS do not conquer their cryptocaryon problems,they manage it.There is no real way to ensure that the parasite will not get into the system with so many new addictions.
If you are stocking a new tank,you most definitely should have a QT tank set up and possibly cycled.
It takes at least 2 tanks to have any success in this hobby.
That's not to say that a QT tank can't be set up right away with tank water from the DT.Maybe a live rock or at the very least some filter media that has been in the DT.Ammonia can be managed without an issue if it is monitored.
Lastly,there is no scientific proof that garlic does anything to help with cryptocaryon.
Oh and Ich does not appear from thin air.You either have it in your system,or you don't.
Stress can weaken the fish enough to cause more problems with the parasite already present in the system.
 
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Thanks Stingy for answering my questions.

Now how do LFS manage ich once one of their display tank is infected.

So I guess question is why lfs only have one or two of their tanks infested and not all? Do they have special filter that clean out these parasites? They ovoiusly can quarantine fish but what about those tiny ich that float around in their centralized water system?

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Ich is a parasite. A critter that feeds on the fish and require fish to survive. If your tank has ich, it can be kept at bay by keeping the tank and it's livestock healthy, but there is always the potential for an outbreak. Garlic is supposedly an immune booster. I use it too. Feeding well and keeping a low stress environment is also key to keeping it at bay. Cleaner fish/shrimp can help remove pests from fish, but won't cure ich. Using UV may kill waterborne Ich that runs through the UV unit, but Ich isn't always in the water column. They are in the sand, and on the fish.

Ich has a lifecycle. You can theoretically rid a tank of ich by removing all fish from a tank system, placing them into quarantine, and leaving the tank fishless for a time period. The often suggested time period is often 10 weeks. Inverts are not affected by Ich and are not carriers. They can be left in the tank. I am no expert, but I think Ich's lifecycle is a matter of weeks. So the goal here is to remove the fish so the active ich starve. Then any dormant ich (eggs essentially) become active and also starve out. When the lifecycle takes it's course, the tank is hopefully ich free.

That isn't all unfortunately. The fish can carry ich and not show outward signs in quarantine. If they are healthy and strong, their immune systems can prevent a visible breakout. When they are put in QT they don't suddenly get cured. The fish can be treated for ich. Now this is where it can get quite tricky as not all fish tolerate all forms of ich treatment. There are two standard treatments for ich. One is copper (or cupramine). The other is with low salinity (hypo). Both methods have their risks and difficulties.

There are also a lot of other ich treatments out there. I don't know if they work. As for treatments, the best thing is to probably scour forums to see other's experiences. Then be as informed as possible and do what one thinks is best... and hope it works. Honestly I don't like dosing a new fish with cocktail of medicines. Especially if they look healthy and are happy. But I currently tend to take a few precautionary measures. So far I haven't run into ich, thankfully. But then again my tank is small and I only have 4 fish at the moment.

For any new fish I usually do the following: (my quarantine tank is cycled and always running, but some treatments can nuke that cycle.. it is a give or take.)

-Formalin dip (Formalin MS): After drip acclimation to the tank water in a container, I dip the fish in Formalin. The dip water has to be oxygenated very well, so I utilize an airstone. Formalin knocks O2 levels down, so caution is required. This blasts external protozoa/parasites/fungus. Observation is required. The bottle states <50 minutes, no more. Immediately end treatment if the fish appears stressed. I have treated clowns, blennies, and wrasse without incident. Formalin is formaldehyde, which is nasty stuff. Thankfully the treatment only uses a little bit. I doubt a dip will cure ich. But maybe it helps?
-The fish then goes into quarantine. Lights off, and quiet time for at least 24 hours. I observe for stress. I don't try feeding right away, unless the fish is out and about and without fear. For good measure I like to let the tank sit for another 5 days and just observe the fish. My QT is currently next to the display, so it can see the main tank and it's residents, and they can see it. I have no idea if that matters or not.
-Next I run a single course of Prazipro in quarantine, which takes about 5 days. This treats for internal parasites/worms. Not for ich. Good stuff and doesn't bug the fish a bit. If the fish shows signs of internal parasites (stringy poop), I may do a second treatment for another 5 days.
-I try to QT for at least 4 weeks total. After the prazi, I just observe and don't treat for anything else. Some people will treat with cupramine by default. I haven't. But I have thought about it.

Good to know too... do not use Prazipro and cupramine together. I hear it is a very bad mix. I 'think' prazipro and hyposalinity do work together. I never tried hypo however. Best to read up if you are thinking about it.
 
Thanks Stingy for answering my questions.

Now how do LFS manage ich once one of their display tank is infected.


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I have no idea,never worked at one.
I do know that some LFS have tanks where they'll attempt to hold new fish and even treat with meds.
Also some will keep fish systems at a low S.G.
Other have UV systems that will catch the trophonts and Tomites reducing the parasite populations.
And lastly a lot of tanks have cleaner wrasse in them.They do quite well in a system that has a lot of turn around.\
But most do last long in a home DT.

You can always ask what the LFS protocol is for keeping parasites out.
 
Many LFS's run low salinity and or moderate copper levels in their fish only systems. When you see fish in reef tanks in stores, most likely the fish are happy and managing the parisite but it's often present. (If I look closely I can usually find plenty of fish showing symptoms in most fish stores).

With all of the above, the fish look good, but when they get stressed by being netted, bagged, transported, and introduced into different tanks - more often than not, symptoms seem to come out of no where.
 
Got it. Thank yu everyone

BRS forum is the best... now go Phil Mickelson !!!!

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If you have a reef tank and no quarantine tank, the best thing you can do with Ich is to soak your food in garlic. Copper will kill your corals. Let the garlic soak into the food and give it a while to dry so when you put it in your tank it doesn't fall off. I have observed time and time again the parasites rejecting the garlic and withdrawing from the host.

Keep in mind that Ich is always present in your tank. It does however go into remission when the fish are cool, calm and collect. When they get stressed (especially tangs and surgeonfish) the Ich wakes and becomes active and starts multiplying again. So a little homework...try to avoid anything that might freak your fish out. Things like moving your rock or sticking your arm in the tank could do it. Are there are rivals in your tank? The more peaceful your tank, the less likely you'll have an outbreak...
 
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