Would this work???

S

sdesi2005

Non-member
I'm looking to cycle some dryrock in my new setup.

My question is:
If I place a piece of plywood over the top of the tank, and feed the pump directly from the tank, will the pump be able to 'suck' the water up into the skimmer, or does it need to be gravity fed?

Would you need to prime the pump somehow?
 

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Centrifugal vane pumps (basically what all the pumps used in aquariums are) are not self-priming, but your illustration would probably work if you primed the pump manually. Fill the skimmer by hand, while plugging the pump input and skimmer output. Then un-stop the pump inlet, and plug in the pump. The water in the skimmer body will flow back out through the pump, filling it with water, at which point the pump will be able to start pumping, and this will work until you unplug the skimmer (to clean the cup) or until the power is interupted. If the pump lost power, it would not reprime. And it could overheat.

You can prevent that potential problem by adding an S-trap on the right side of your drawing. The pump inlet pipe would come out of the water, go straight up until it's an inch or two above the pump inlet, then it would turn 180 degrees, form a U down towards the water, and come back up to enter the pump inlet.

It will look like an S lying on it's left side.

This should hold water in it when the pump is unplugged, so it can reprime by itself when plugged in again. You'll probably want to do something like this so you don't have to reprime it manually every time you need to clean the skimmer cup.

Nate
 
Any time you place electrical equipment over a open water - you are asking for trouble. Also the saltwater that gets on the plywood will leach chemicals into your water source, also not a good idea.

Place it on blocks or stone on the floor... IMO
 
Where would the chemicals leach from? Are you talking about the condensation falling back into the water? I could use some other material.
 
Thanks Nate, I'll be sure to make it deeper. I'm just not too good with Microsoft Paint.

I'm not worried about bubbles, just cycling some rock, I've setup a basement sump / fuge / frag tank that I won't connect to the main tank until the rock has cycled completely.

You thought I knew it all? Are you sadly mistaken. If I knew anything my tank would already be running.
 
Hang on. I just realized that you'll probably create a siphon when the pump stops, and that might suck your water out of the trap. I think the following addition will fix it.

Drill a hole in the top of the up-loop of the S-trap. Drill another hole in the pipe right before pump inlet. (instead of drilling you could also incorporate threaded PVC tees into your plumbing, and then screw small-diameter hose barbs into those threaded holes.) Glue tubing between those holes (or if using barbs, just stick the ends of the hose on each barb - I like the barb idea. You can use a U-shaped PVC part that's made for sink traps that has a threaded clean-out hole at the apex of the curve, and you should be able to thread a barb into that).

This will act as a siphon break when the water has all drained out of the skimmer, and air starts to get sucked back through the pump. The air will get sucked through that small diameter tubing, and break the suction in the loop, so water remains in the down-loop to start the pump. I THINK that should work.

I'm not talking from experience here, I'm just thinking about this in theory, and IN THEORY this should work, but I should probably warn that you'll be a bit of guinea pig if you follow my advice.

As Homer Simpson has pointed out, "Sure Marge, in theory. Communism works, in theory." :p
 
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Would it be easier to just put a backflow preventer on the PVC?

If I was to install the tubing from the top of the 'S' connection, would water go through it when the pump is on?

Also what if I just really exageragted the height of the 'S', would it be able to pull all the water out? Also, what if in stead of returning the water straight down back into the tank, if it was pitched more, allowing more air in the tube, might weaken the syphon as well?
 

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You could put a one-way valve in the inlet side of the plumbing. They're a little pricey though, and only semi-reliable.

Exagerating the loop won't work because the longer that right-hand tube (above the waterline) the stronger the siphon.

Water will travel through that little hose I described when the pump is operating, but that won't make any difference.
 
So like this?

So you think the airline tube will break the syphon?
 

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What about this:

I think I could avoid the whole 'S' connection, and siphon problem, and power outage.

What if the output of the skimmer returned back into the tank, SUBMERGED? In this case, if the power did go out, the water would siphon backwards out of the pump. My only question is, would this create too much back pressue inside the skimmer causing the water level in the skimmer to overflow?
 
Isn't the top of your skimmer open? I'd think air would go in through the top, and water would go out through the bottom.
 
sdesi2005 said:
So like this?

So you think the airline tube will break the syphon?
Click to expand...

Yes. That should work fine. The airline will break the siphon because as the skimmer becomes empty, air will enter the pump (from the skimmer) and when that air gets sucked through the airline and enters the top of the right-hand arch, it will disrupt the siphon.

On your drawing you could simplify the plumbing by using a trap-with-cleanout instead of the tee and two elbows you show at the right in the drawing.
 
Yeah I was actually at homedepot last night and found those pieces. I'll try it. I'll post a picture when I finally get it hooked up and running.

My other option was to just use a submersible pump and not have to worry about any of this. Probably a simpler fix. I wouldn't care what it looks like in the tank, it would only be temporary.
 
Yeah, that would work (not much of a challenge though :p).

I'll be interested to hear if it works. You can charge me for the PVC if it's a total failure. ;)
 
Funny, I've been thinking about it a lot, I think I might just try it to see if it actually works. Also, give me something to do while watching the B's.
 
Yeah, I enjoy little problems like this.

Lately I've been considering a way to make my own seltzer carbonator so I can put a tap on the fridge that dispenses endless soda water. :)
 
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