Automatic water change with dosing pump?

[showard]

Hey all I would like to set up a dosing pump hopefully with stepper motors and larger diameter tubing, and need some input/guidance!

The reason for doing this is to only have to do big water changes once in a while and my tank will stay cleaner much more consistently. The schedule is as planned: 1% or 1.5% daily or every other day over the course of a week for my 90 gallon tank + 20ish gallon sump (its custom made). I have NPS corals and do multiple daily feedings and I think that this would go above and beyond to keep my water quality pristine. I have SPS: acro's, montis, birdsnest, ect, LPS: lots and lots of brains and a few Softies: tyree toadstool, shrooms as well and they LOVE the food I am feeding but alas as awesome as any skimmer is in theory it can only remove 30% of the waste in my tank and so I have a fuge that is lit by a evergrrow d120. So I have covered 2 main forms of nutrient export but... there is still 1 more to exploit: water changes. I am honestly not the most vigilant about them and so I believe that I will get 2 containers that will go somewhere near the tank, not sure where yet, and have them be my waste and new SW containers.

I am feeding rotifers, LRS coral frenzy, and another frozen food I forget. I take a little bit of each (I have the measurements at home) and put all of that into 1 gallon of SW and that goes into a wine cooler next to my tank, a air pump turns on for 5 minutes to stir the food and then shuts off where an aqualifter sends the food to the tank for a minute or two. Yes I do know that a real fridge with a compressor is better suited but its in my room... and I really do not want to hear the compressor kick on at 3am and wake me up, the wine cooler gets down to around 45F anyways which is long enough for my purposes of avoiding food spoilage. I feed 2 times a day, and am feeding a *gasp* (yup) blueberry gorgonian, Acalycigorgia sp., and a red didogorgia nodulifera. As well as a sun coral lol. The flow is behind the gorgs which seems to be key to many peoples success and I do eventually want to go onto feeding more then 2 times a day, which makes sense to remove and replace small amounts of water every day anyways.

I have come across:
-the oh-so-ovbious Neptune DOS: 2 stepper motors with larger diameter tubing, reverseable pumps(not that I need that for any particular reason), controlled by the apex (I have one of those gizmos) and it costs 300$
-Bubble Magus BM-T01 I have no idea if you can even calibrate this thing: DC motors, small diameter tubing, probably better off getting something else unless there is some hidden gem of a feature 269.99$
-Kamoer 3 Channel dosing pump: DC motors, seems quite reliable, never heard of them, maybe a contender? 299.99$
-Kamoer F05X: wireless, can be controlled by iphone, andriod, ect, has 2 stepper motor heads just for water changes then 3 other heads for dosing, very feature-full, but very pricey at 499.99$
-Kore 5th: just like the Kamoer F05X but does not have the 2 beefy heads for water changes, bluetooth connectivity, got nice reviews and has and automatic water changing feature right in its software just like the F05X 429.99$

I am leaning towards the DOS but honestly it seems like a waste to buy a 2 head unit and still have to use my aqualifter to feed the corals (the aqualifter kicks butt though) I just am hoping for an all in one deal which is why I am asking for help on this. The Kamoer 3 channel has 3 pumps so I can do my water change and feed the corals but the pumps are smaller and may wear out faster. The F05X is the end all be all but it costs 500$ and the website is grammatically incorrect, looks like something out of google translate, not sure about that. The Kore 5th does not have the stepper motor but just like the K05X it has an area in its software just for automatic water changes.

I want to know which one you would choose and why or if there is another idea/pump you think would be fitting, also if there are any pros/cons that I am unaware of because I want to make an informed buy on something that will last a long time and keep my tank very healthy. I have also ruled out the Jebao doser, I know its cheap and will most likely do the job and I have their pumps I just want something that will always work for years to come and I will only have to replace heads/tubing every 500+ hours or so.

Thank you for reading this far and I await your replies!

-Sam

 

[dmurb]

What about a litermeter. They have 2 pumps but also have add on pumps. You can turn it into a 3 head pump. I have one of these i use it to drain 1 gallon a day. And replace 1 gallon a day.

 

[showard]

Really? How much does it cost to get the setup you use?

 

[choff]

I use the Genesis water change system. Easy as pie to set up and rock solid performance going on 2 years. I didn't buy their ATO, I just bought the Renew. You need 2 small pumps. The basic is 499 and the basic with 2 pumps is 559. The pro is 599 and pro with pumps is 659. The pumps they include at eheim 1000s.

Add in the storm and storm pro ( water change system) and you are looking at 329 and 429 more. There are many ways around using this.

The difference between the basic and pro is an extra fail safe sensor.

 

[cilyjr]

Sam I've been doing this for some time(years). I use a masterflex dual head parastaltic pump. The great thing is 1 motor spins both heads so it is very consistent. Tube length and varying heights of the tubing is the only variable. You are welcomed to come by (you should have after osras conference, I'm 5 mins from there) and see exactly how I've set it up.

 

[letoan]

+1 on the Litermeter. Simple, reliable, and not too expensive.

When come to auto water change always think "same in same out".

 

[nemodan]

The GHL Doser 2 standalone can be used for continuous WC . It has stepper motors and can be controlled by a cloud software MyGHL. Similar to the DOS, but 4 pumps.
https://premiumaquatics.com/products/ghl-profilux-stand-dosing-system-2-4-pumps-white.html

 

[showard]

I use the Genesis water change system. Easy as pie to set up and rock solid performance going on 2 years. I didn't buy their ATO, I just bought the Renew. You need 2 small pumps. The basic is 499 and the basic with 2 pumps is 559. The pro is 599 and pro with pumps is 659. The pumps they include at eheim 1000s.

Add in the storm and storm pro ( water change system) and you are looking at 329 and 429 more. There are many ways around using this.

The difference between the basic and pro is an extra fail safe sensor.

I have looked at it and it seems a bit more expensive and time consuming to set up. I do like the metered containers though.

 

[showard]

Sam I've been doing this for some time(years). I use a masterflex dual head parastaltic pump. The great thing is 1 motor spins both heads so it is very consistent. Tube length and varying heights of the tubing is the only variable. You are welcomed to come by (you should have after osras conference, I'm 5 mins from there) and see exactly how I've set it up.

Pm'd lol

 

[showard]

The GHL Doser 2 standalone can be used for continuous WC . It has stepper motors and can be controlled by a cloud software MyGHL. Similar to the DOS, but 4 pumps.
https://premiumaquatics.com/products/ghl-profilux-stand-dosing-system-2-4-pumps-white.html

Do you think I would have to replace the tubing more often since the heads are smaller? I do like that you can change out the motors separately from the heads.

 

[showard]

+1 on the Litermeter. Simple, reliable, and not too expensive.

When come to auto water change always think "same in same out".

Seems like a very good option, just trying to figure out how often to replace the tubing/heads and how often to calibrate it. Can't seem to find that anywhere online.

 

[Coffee with Mango]

Sam I've been doing this for some time(years). I use a masterflex dual head parastaltic pump. The great thing is 1 motor spins both heads so it is very consistent. Tube length and varying heights of the tubing is the only variable. You are welcomed to come by (you should have after osras conference, I'm 5 mins from there) and see exactly how I've set it up.

Is this the model masterflex you use? http://www.coleparmer.com/Product/M...jWDK_ihEdbbYhO9DFVSgMaOa6BTmw2CumJBoCGb7w_wcB

They have so many options and some are very pricey. I am hoping this is the one you are referring to because I am also hoping to set up and auto-water-change system for my new build. Does it matter if , for example, the clean water reservoir is five feet away and the tank with old water is 2 feet away?

 

[this is me]

For AWC, I don't think you should be using a dosing pump. Dosing pumps are designed more for short turn on time and will not be able to handle the continuous operation. I have a GHL dosing system and when I used one of the pump for my ATO, the head stripped out pretty quickly(within 6 months). The motor itself is heavy duty but the head will be worn out from the heat due to friction. I'm using a liter meter pump for my ATO now. Even that, with AWC in continuous operation, I'm not sure how long it will last. If you want to do 1/4 of a gallon every hour, it'll probably be okay.

The Masterflex is a great choice because it's designed for continuous use. Even so, you will have change out the head tubing every now and then. I'm running one on my CA reactor since Dec '15 and I can see that the head tubing will need to be changed in a couple months.
The link you posted is only for the head. You will need to get the pump unit itself which can be quite expensive for a new one. Ebay is much for affordable. These pumps are built for medical and scientific purposes so the build quality is very well controlled and will last for a very long time.

As for the AWC discussion. Would it benefit anything? I've thought about doing it, but I've read conflicting reports suggesting that a weekly water change in larger amount will actually more effective in keeping the nutrients level down. For example, the bacteria will multiple faster than your AWC can replenish new water to the tank. Sure, the level will be more constant but that I'm just not sure if it's worth all the work. Another thing to keep in mind that to run the pump 24/7 isn't exactly keep. The Masterflex running at 75W continuously is almost equivalent to adding a 250W of light over your tank.

 

[Coffee with Mango]

For AWC, I don't think you should be using a dosing pump. Dosing pumps are designed more for short turn on time and will not be able to handle the continuous operation. I have a GHL dosing system and when I used one of the pump for my ATO, the head stripped out pretty quickly(within 6 months). The motor itself is heavy duty but the head will be worn out from the heat due to friction. I'm using a liter meter pump for my ATO now. Even that, with AWC in continuous operation, I'm not sure how long it will last. If you want to do 1/4 of a gallon every hour, it'll probably be okay.

The Masterflex is a great choice because it's designed for continuous use. Even so, you will have change out the head tubing every now and then. I'm running one on my CA reactor since Dec '15 and I can see that the head tubing will need to be changed in a couple months.
The link you posted is only for the head. You will need to get the pump unit itself which can be quite expensive for a new one. Ebay is much for affordable. These pumps are built for medical and scientific purposes so the build quality is very well controlled and will last for a very long time.

As for the AWC discussion. Would it benefit anything? I've thought about doing it, but I've read conflicting reports suggesting that a weekly water change in larger amount will actually more effective in keeping the nutrients level down. For example, the bacteria will multiple faster than your AWC can replenish new water to the tank. Sure, the level will be more constant but that I'm just not sure if it's worth all the work. Another thing to keep in mind that to run the pump 24/7 isn't exactly keep. The Masterflex running at 75W continuously is almost equivalent to adding a 250W of light over your tank.

I can't speak for the original thread poster, but when I refer to "continuous" or "auto" I don't literally mean continuous. I mean that it will turn on once a day, or twice a week, or with some other discrete periodicity, and change a gallon or two of water without me having to do anything. All I would have to do is replenish the reservoir. This is the type of system I am looking to set up.

 

[choff]

I have looked at it and it seems a bit more expensive and time consuming to set up. I do like the metered containers though.

Expensive? yes. Time consuming to set up? Heck no. I was up and running in under 30 min. It certainly takes up more space, but if you have a remote sump in a basement or fish room it's not an issue. I also think it's the most reliable option. Been running for almost 2 years changing 1 gal every 4 hours without a single hiccup. Power interruptions do not phase it and I never have to worry about pumps being in sync that might slowly change my salinity as my ATO compensates. I don't mind paying for a quality product and in this hobby l learned long ago it does not generally pay to go cheap. I looked into all of the options you listed, except the Apex doses were not out yet, before going with the Genesis and have not regretted it for a second.

 

[this is me]

Then a water solenoid on tee off the drain and the the reservoir recirculation is a better and more cost effective way to do it. At least this is what I'm planning. For example, have the controller open the solenoid on the drain line to drain the water into the sink for a certain time(ie.10mins). Your sump level will get lower. If you have freshly mixed saltwater in a container, most likely you will have a pump to circulate it. Tee off another solenoid on this line and turn it on after the 1st solenoid is off. Use the float sensor to stop the solenoid when the water in the sump has reached it desired level.

There's some level of programming your controller here. You will have to do some study to see if your controller is capable of this.

 

[cilyjr]

This is the pump I use. You can get a used one in the 80 to 150 range

 

[choff]

Then a water solenoid on tee off the drain and the the reservoir recirculation is a better and more cost effective way to do it. At least this is what I'm planning. For example, have the controller open the solenoid on the drain line to drain the water into the sink for a certain time(ie.10mins). Your sump level will get lower. If you have freshly mixed saltwater in a container, most likely you will have a pump to circulate it. Tee off another solenoid on this line and turn it on after the 1st solenoid is off. Use the float sensor to stop the solenoid when the water in the sump has reached it desired level.

There's some level of programming your controller here. You will have to do some study to see if your controller is capable of this.

That's a pretty good idea. Your ATO would need to be something you could also turn off and not just a manual float valve. I would also want 2 back up float sensors. One to turn the main pump off if the after level got to low and one to turn the drain pump if it got to low. You could also run the drain pump the same way instead of running it for a set time. I would then want 2 on the drain pump in case one failed.

 

[showard]

For AWC, I don't think you should be using a dosing pump. Dosing pumps are designed more for short turn on time and will not be able to handle the continuous operation. I have a GHL dosing system and when I used one of the pump for my ATO, the head stripped out pretty quickly(within 6 months). The motor itself is heavy duty but the head will be worn out from the heat due to friction. I'm using a liter meter pump for my ATO now. Even that, with AWC in continuous operation, I'm not sure how long it will last. If you want to do 1/4 of a gallon every hour, it'll probably be okay.

The Masterflex is a great choice because it's designed for continuous use. Even so, you will have change out the head tubing every now and then. I'm running one on my CA reactor since Dec '15 and I can see that the head tubing will need to be changed in a couple months.
The link you posted is only for the head. You will need to get the pump unit itself which can be quite expensive for a new one. Ebay is much for affordable. These pumps are built for medical and scientific purposes so the build quality is very well controlled and will last for a very long time.

As for the AWC discussion. Would it benefit anything? I've thought about doing it, but I've read conflicting reports suggesting that a weekly water change in larger amount will actually more effective in keeping the nutrients level down. For example, the bacteria will multiple faster than your AWC can replenish new water to the tank. Sure, the level will be more constant but that I'm just not sure if it's worth all the work. Another thing to keep in mind that to run the pump 24/7 isn't exactly keep. The Masterflex running at 75W continuously is almost equivalent to adding a 250W of light over your tank.

I am thinking masterflex now lol what would be the downside of getting a DOS over the masterflex? Also which head/pump combo do you use and how do you control when it turns on and off? Also I would be running it a few times a day.

 

[showard]

That's a pretty good idea. Your ATO would need to be something you could also turn off and not just a manual float valve. I would also want 2 back up float sensors. One to turn the main pump off if the after level got to low and one to turn the drain pump if it got to low. You could also run the drain pump the same way instead of running it for a set time. I would then want 2 on the drain pump in case one failed.

I like this idea but I would use optical sensors and an arduino or get the optical sensors from the neptune dos container and use those with the controller. Unfortunetly I don't think I would be able to pull this off as I would like a set up that I can use out of the box and not have to spend days making and assembling. Maybe when I get a place of my own lol