Chemestry guys, is the Windex thing a myth?

I know it isn't true but I'm just playing devils advocate. Ammonia molicule is about the same size as water so it can't get through glass if water can't , but oil molecules are bigger than water molecules and they can get through the plastic container and water can't. Right?

I don't think the size thing is a good proof.

also, how much windex would it take to be enough ammonia to hurt the fish (assume a 100g tank, regular bioload) a teeny bit of mist, a drop, a teaspoon??
 
I'd have to agree with the unanimous "no" vote on this one, although, given enough time, I'm not sure you couldn't get windex/water through the glass...maybe a millenium or so. This could be a mildly entertaining theoretical discussion but I think the practical answer is pretty well answered...no.

Joe
 
I also read somewhere not to use ammonia Windex. Use vinegar Windex instead. This was 18months ago when I first started. I thought to myself that the salt-water hobby was going to be Hell if the livestock is that sensitive. It?s Poppycock IMO.
I would think this reasoning is due to a possibility accidental spray into tank. I just spray into the wipe and not around the tank.
Rich
 
I agree with "no" on this one and I think joefitz has it right when he says "you couldn't get windex/water through the glass...maybe a millenium or so." Technically, glass is just a liquid (don't crucify me... the molecular structure of glass does allow the atoms some freedom to move around, solids have no freedom to move, only the freedom to wiggle in place). Here's a much more informative website http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/Glass/glass.html
Even that will leave you scratching your head. If the ammonia was in constant contact with the glass for a few millenia, yeah I suppose it's possible ammonia could penetrate glass, but I'm not going to sit around and wait for it. ;) I doubt this is what the website meant, but you never know...
 
Anyone feeling sciency doing a water change tonight?
Could you drip a drop of blue windex into a gallon of tankwater and test for ammonia?
I bet there is other stuff in there, but it would be nice to know what kind of concentrations we're talking about and if it is even a problem.
 
Oh, and I may not be a scientist but I did sleep in a motel 6 the other night so I'm pretty sure about this... ;-)
 
Glass is actually a liquid. If you get very very old glass windowpanes you will see a bulge at the bottom edge where it has moved and sagged over the years. Anyway everything is permeable to some degree (even steel) it just may take a few 100 or thousands years or so for vapors to get through it. I use Wendex to clean the outside of my tank all the time. I just spray it on the paper towel away from the tank. Never has a problem.
 
My corals use windex for sun screen, my snails inject it like steroids, my crabs are all blue from snorting lines of windex and my fish bathe in the stuff!! No ill effects
 
denvig said:
Glass is actually a liquid. If you get very very old glass windowpanes you will see a bulge at the bottom edge where it has moved and sagged over the years.
Click to expand...


Frankly I used to believe the same, until I visited the Corning museum of glass:

http://www.cmog.org/index.asp?pageId=745


I like Flighty's straightforward analysis: How much Windex would you need to add to a tank for it to be dangerous?

That is an experiment that I am not trying.... :rolleyes:
 
~Flighty~ said:
I know it isn't true but I'm just playing devils advocate. Ammonia molicule is about the same size as water so it can't get through glass if water can't , but oil molecules are bigger than water molecules and they can get through the plastic container and water can't. Right?

I don't think the size thing is a good proof.
Click to expand...
No, size alon wouldn't be good proof. But water and ammonia are both small, polar, hydrophilic molecules of similar size. The reason oil can seep through plastic is because of the plastic polymer structure and the hydrophobic nature of the oil compund. I'm not a chemist, so that's as much as I can explain it.

However, the reason spraying windex on the outside glass might lead to windex in your tank is as follows. No, I swear it doesn't go through the glass, but it does go around the glass.

When you spray windex, some of the ammonia volatilizes, which you can smell in the room. Some of this gaseous ammonia in the atmosphere will then return to aqueous ammonia when it comes in contact with your tank water because there is an equlibrium between atmospheric ammonia and aqueous ammonium. This is why spraying ammonia on your glass or in the room is a bad idea. How much ammonia gets back into the tank? I don't know.

Matt:cool:
 
The Ammonia in windex wouldn't be what worried me-The trace amounts that could possibly arrive in your tank by the process that Matt just described would be easily handled by nitrifying bacteria. It is the other unknown substances that could be in windex that I would be most worried about. Who knows what kind of effect even trace amounts of some compound could have on corals, fish, inverts?
 
I'd be more afraid of a dirt sticky blurry glass than using windex, so i'll keep using it and having a sparkling clear glass where i can see the corals shine behind it ;)
 
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