Dying SPS; high phosphates; thoughts?

[josho923]

Anybody have advice for slowing dying off SPS (especially Acropora)? Over the last few months, numerous species of SPS that were thriving and growing/spreading quite nicely for a long time began to slowly all die back :-( The fish and all other coral species, urchins, anemones, etc. are all thriving still. I dose with continually dose 2-part that is controlled by my Apex with peristaltic pumps and use Reef Crystals for water exchanges. I have ROX/GFO in a reactor but admittedly, I go wayyy too long in between media changes. Interestingly, I had issues with cyanobacteria for quite a while and without any intervention, it starting to slowly die back during the same timeframe that my SPS also started to die off.

Here are my parameters:
Temp: 79-80 F
pH: ranges between 8.2ish-8.4ish in 24-hr period
SG: 1.024-1.025 (salin 32.5 ppt)
calcium: typically 410-430 ppm and during early stages of die off (now up to 460 because of all the SPS losses and less "mouths to feed"; I cut back on my calcium dosing today in response to this)
alkalinity: typically 9-9.5 dKH and during early stages of die off (now up to 10.5 because of all the SPS losses and less "mouths to feed"; I cut back on my alk dosing today in response to this)
phophorus/phosphate: 0.066/0.20 ppm
nitrates: 0

Seems like my phosphate is way higher than the recommended goal (I use an automatic feeder for my anthias, etc. during the day while I'm at work and may be the main culprit for this; I feed frozen at night). But the strange thing, knock on wood, is that I have zero algae issues! The more I've read about phosphates, it seems like them getting high is not ideal and causes algal blooms, etc., but it seems like maybe the jury is out as to whether it truly kills coral/growth (? inhibits coral skeleton growth?). Is this true or is this maybe what's killing my SPS? I was gonna go change out my ROX/GFO now and cut back on the automatic feeder use. It's so sad to watch all the hard work and money and hardscaping with the SPS frags that had grown beautifully all die off! Thanks in advance and I welcome any thoughts/advice!

 

[Joker]

0 nitrate is bad I wouldn't be surprised to see a dino spike soon if you dont get your nitrate and phosphate balanced. Also you saying you go long periods in between changing the gfo can release small particles of it into the water from it breaking down this is something to consider.

 

[josho923]

Thanks for the response, @Joker

Sorry for my ignorance, as I have chronically focused on the other "main" parameters and inappropriately ignored phosphate and nitrate - I am working on getting the phosphates down (literally as I type this), but is there anything I should be doing to "raise" nitrates or does lowering the phos help with this imbalance, etc.?

 

[Joker]

To lower phosphate properly you will need nitrate. Buy neonitro to raise nitrate dose it slowly. I had the same thing happen to my sps and found out it was getting body spray in the tank from being to close to my bathroom. After I fixed that problem I had low nitrate and ended up with dino.

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

0 nitrate isn't bad, but phosphate should only be detectable at that point. Every tank is different though. Go watch reefbums video with Abe from Coral Euphoria, it should be linked in reeftalk

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

Anybody have advice for slowing dying off SPS (especially Acropora)? Over the last few months, numerous species of SPS that were thriving and growing/spreading quite nicely for a long time began to slowly all die back :-( The fish and all other coral species, urchins, anemones, etc. are all thriving still. I dose with continually dose 2-part that is controlled by my Apex with peristaltic pumps and use Reef Crystals for water exchanges. I have ROX/GFO in a reactor but admittedly, I go wayyy too long in between media changes. Interestingly, I had issues with cyanobacteria for quite a while and without any intervention, it starting to slowly die back during the same timeframe that my SPS also started to die off.

Here are my parameters:
Temp: 79-80 F
pH: ranges between 8.2ish-8.4ish in 24-hr period
SG: 1.024-1.025 (salin 32.5 ppt)
calcium: typically 410-430 ppm and during early stages of die off (now up to 460 because of all the SPS losses and less "mouths to feed"; I cut back on my calcium dosing today in response to this)
alkalinity: typically 9-9.5 dKH and during early stages of die off (now up to 10.5 because of all the SPS losses and less "mouths to feed"; I cut back on my alk dosing today in response to this)
phophorus/phosphate: 0.066/0.20 ppm
nitrates: 0

Seems like my phosphate is way higher than the recommended goal (I use an automatic feeder for my anthias, etc. during the day while I'm at work and may be the main culprit for this; I feed frozen at night). But the strange thing, knock on wood, is that I have zero algae issues! The more I've read about phosphates, it seems like them getting high is not ideal and causes algal blooms, etc., but it seems like maybe the jury is out as to whether it truly kills coral/growth (? inhibits coral skeleton growth?). Is this true or is this maybe what's killing my SPS? I was gonna go change out my ROX/GFO now and cut back on the automatic feeder use. It's so sad to watch all the hard work and money and hardscaping with the SPS frags that had grown beautifully all die off! Thanks in advance and I welcome any thoughts/advice!

How long has things been stable? How long has the tank been established? Anything different? New lights etc

 

[josho923]

Thanks @BiGGiePauls33

What does "phosphate should only be detectable at that point." At the point where nitrate is 0? And should I be making efforts to lower phosphate?

 

[josho923]

@BiGGiePauls33

The tank has been established for roughly 4+ years now. It's been fairly stable for quite a long time. Been running the same lights, protein skimmer, equipment, 2-part dosing system, etc. for years now; no changes at ll with regard to the equipment and lights, etc. Of note, I moved roughly 9 months ago (I replaced the sand at that time). The move went smoothly and I didn't lose a single creature - all fish, coral, inverts, etc. made it. And for several months after that move, my coral, including the SPS were thriving. Both older, established SPS, as well as newly-introduced ones, were all growing and spreading nicely for over a half year. Then roughly 2-3 months ago, they all started gradually dying off.

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

Fat fingered that one. With nitrate running 0, phosphate should be detectable but at like . 03 range. Like I said all tanks are different, some can run crazy nutrients some cannot. Myself personally I'd try bringing no3 up a bit and bring po4 down a bit, try to maintain a ratio with them for some time, just like having your alkalinity stable.
Has the tank always ran those numbers like for months at a time. Usually with SPS if it's not pests or lighting or flow it could've been something months back. Ahhh, the many wonders of the deep. Good luck.

 

[afboundguy]

There is a ratio of nitrate to phosphate that's supposed to be ideal in a reef tank. I can't remember the exact ratio off the to of my head but I'm almost positive it's 16:1 nitrate to phosphate. Basically if you don't have that ratio (too low nitrates with higher phosphates or too low phosphates with high nitrates) you will have a more difficult time lowering/raising either to the ideal 16:1 ratio and it could lead to problems.

I've read of people who have what would be considered insanely high phosphates that don't have any issues as they have a corresponding nitrate ratio and their tank looks amazing. The big push when I got in the hobby was as low to zero nitrates/nutrient tanks and now there are a ton more tanks out there that purposely keep nitrates in the 20'ish range as there's a thought process out there that a tank needs a proper amount of nutrients to survive. That's not saying a super low nutrient tank won't flourish because no two tanks are the same.

 

[josho923]

Thanks for all of the input, everybody. I'm going to order the NeoNitro that @Joker suggested above and try that. Would this phos/nutrate imbalance cause SPS to gradually die off? Or is that more just a culprit for algal blooms, etc.?

 

[josho923]

On BRS, it is saying to also buy BioFuel (carbon source) and MicroBacter7 (bioculture) - should I be using these in conjunction with the NeoNitro or just the nitrogen source? I would love to keep this as simple as possible longterm, while keeping my tank as stable as possible (everything else other than SPS is thriving and I really don't want to cause a horrible issue with the rest of the tank). Wondering what the "longterm" solution may be - dosing nitrogen frequently initially and then gradually reducing longterm?

 

[JeanR]

Is it possible your NO3 levels are there but your method of detection is off? I similarly had 0 NO3 but it turned out my Salifert kit was off and when I bought a new one I could detect them.

My PO4 is 1ppm and all my acros look fine. I'm not sure NO3 or PO4 issues will kill your SPS corals, but could influence coloration.

I had a die-off of SPS earlier in the year (acros, seriatopora) and after chasing all kinds of things (small rusty magnet found in tank, heater voltage leak, NO3, PO4, etc...) it turned out that I had blown through my carbon block filter on my RODI system and was inadvertently adding chloramines to my tank (probably). As soon as I recharged by RODI stages and did a bunch of water changes everything came back.

IMO all the hubbub around chasing NO3/PO4 parameters is over rated. I like to feed heavily and my NO3 is 25-50ppm and PO4 is 0.5-1ppm. My tank has its shares of ups and downs but I doubt NO3/PO4 is driving any of it (me being a dumbass drives most of it). And if BRS TV has convinced us to buy another product as a quick fix then they have done their job!