Got Corals from Nate?

[clamm]

I think they each cyst is about the size of a pen dot...maybe a little bigger. As you can see they are very easy to see if the thing is dead...but takes more then a glance if the coral is still alive as the color blends very well with the coral.

so the magnification is probably 3x-4x

Seems pretty obvious. Are those somewhat close to actual size? Like within a couple factors of magnification?

 

[ReeferMedic]

I think they each cyst is about the size of a pen dot...maybe a little bigger. As you can see they are very easy to see if the thing is dead...but takes more then a glance if the coral is still alive as the color blends very well with the coral.

so the magnification is probably 3x-4x

They actually lay their eggs on the bare white skeleton, so they are easy to see. I'm guessing they do this because the live tissue would probably rot under the eggs and "spoil" them when it dies off if they did lay them on live tissue. That's just speculation on my part, but makes sense to me.

 

[NateHanson]

Either that or the immune/defense response of the corals would kill the eggs.

 

[clamm]

interesting...where do they lay in the beginning? im at home right now and have no bare spots on them other then a few places on the tips that got damaged by the other coral falling on it... Im still going to take the turkey baster out.


Are we sure they only lay on the dead part of the skeleton? If so that eleminiates some, of my worry...not all though.

 

[NateHanson]

It seems you can have them in your tank without finding egg clutches though. Perhaps they lay very small egg batches when small, or perhaps they have a long life-cycle and have to grow to maturity before laying eggs.

 

[ReeferMedic]

perhaps they have a long life-cycle and have to grow to maturity before laying eggs.

Colud be this, or they don't actually lay any eggs until there is bare skeleton to lay the eggs on. That's where my money is.

 

[Liam]

It seems you can have them in your tank without finding egg clutches though. Perhaps they lay very small egg batches when small, or perhaps they have a long life-cycle and have to grow to maturity before laying eggs.

Darren told me they were able to lay at age 5 days

 

[ReeferMedic]

My money is on that they do it just out of instinct. I think they just eat a spot clean and lay their eggs, whether it takes days, or weeks. Kind of the same idea of colwn fish or most egg laying fish for that matter. Fish always pick the chosen spot clean of debris. probably based on the same type of instinct.

 

[NateHanson]

Yeah, but there's usually an underlying reason for the evolution of that instinct (not always, but often). There's likely some benefit to laying eggs on bare skeleton. The mommy worms certainly don't have any idea what that benefit is, but selection has resulted in them doing things a certain way "by instinct".

 

[Liam]

you may find the reason they lay the eggs on bare skeleton is to allow good adhesion of the eggs

 

[merk1_99]

Not to be a downer, but who is to say that bare acro skeleton is the only place these flatworms can lay eggs. I have heard a couple of stories of I QT'd all my stuff, dipped everything, ran my tank just with live rock for 6 months, etc...And yet a reinfestation still takes place...Who knows maybe if there is no acro population they go dormant....Personally I think I am in the clear from all my SPS dealings....But am I 90% sure? No. The lifecycle of this bugger just isn't understood enough for me to make a blanket statement about being bug free. I always laugh when I see ppl who post they are 100% bug and pest free....

 

[Liam]

they choose the skeleton over the rock so that the newly hatched worms have a food source the minute they pop out

 

[ReeferMedic]

they choose the skeleton over the rock so that the newly hatched worms have a food source the minute they pop out

Yup, that's probably another reason.

 

[maurod]

Not to be a downer, but who is to say that bare acro skeleton is the only place these flatworms can lay eggs. I have heard a couple of stories of I QT'd all my stuff, dipped everything, ran my tank just with live rock for 6 months, etc...And yet a reinfestation still takes place...Who knows maybe if there is no acro population they go dormant....Personally I think I am in the clear from all my SPS dealings....But am I 90% sure? No. The lifecycle of this bugger just isn't understood enough for me to make a blanket statement about being bug free. I always laugh when I see ppl who post they are 100% bug and pest free....

I've never heard of a case of someone pulling *every* acro, treating them, leaving the tank barren for 6 months and having a reinfestation.
Can you point me a thread here or on RC where that is the case ? I am most curious.

M.

 

[ScottM]

I've never heard of a case of someone pulling *every* acro, treating them, leaving the tank barren for 6 months and having a reinfestation.
Can you point me a thread here or on RC where that is the case ? I am most curious.

M.

i can think of a few locals who "claimed" they did this.....
and then BOAST they are pest free. I have even heard one member claim that they don't need to treat or quarantine because their wholesale supplier does it for them...
its amazing how quickly people forget.

 

[One Eye]

They aren't that specific about where they lay their eggs. Look at the pics I took in Moes useful threads stickey. The eggs are on a zoanthid. I just recently found fw's on a ricordea rock I bought, I know they weren't eating the rics but probably got knocked loose by flow or someone's turkey basting and ended up in the rics.
Nate you.... let this be a lesson. If a tank has even one frag with visible fw damage or fw themselves....the WHOLE TANK is infected. When I found the fw's they were on frags from Jim when he moved. I saw Nate leaving when I pulled up to buy my frags from Jim....NOBODY gets lucky and ends up with the frags that aren't infected, they are ALL infected.
Think about it, they lay hundreds of eggs at one time, the eggs hatch at the same time....hundreds of fw's are all going to live on and feed from the same frag? C'mon!
I also spoke with Dr Shimek during our driving around time last weekend. He feels that my observation of them laying eggs within the 5 day old range should be accurate. In the wild they are eaten by numerous different animals and must proliferate quickly to maintain the species.

 

[One Eye]

Here's an effective way to rid your tanks....If you bought frags from Nate (sorry Nate) then you ARE infected...don't pretend not to be, even if the frags you bought from Nate died off...the fw's didn't unless they were the only acros you had in the tank....PLEASE DON'T IGNOR THIS AND SPREAD THESE THINGS AROUND.

Take EVERY piece of acropora out of your main tank...every piece...did I say every piece? I think I did say EVERY PIECE. Even rock they MIGHT have encrusted onto. Place all the acro into a BARE BOTTOM qt tank. Treat with Levimanisole...I use slightly over the recomended dosage when doing dips, I think it says 1.1 ml per gallon, I use 1.5 ml per gallon. Wait 5 days and treat again. Treat again 5 days after that. Leave the acros in qt at least a month. This will allow you to observe the acros and allow time for the fw's that are in your main system to starve and die.

The eggs are fairly easy to see. The babies aren't. The only method I found (by accident) for seeing the newly hatched fw's is to hold the coral out of water for about 15 minutes. They tend to find a wet spot and stay still. After 15 minutes of dry time, hold the coral about an inch under the surface of the water and take pics, with the flash, as fast as your camera will let you. The flash reflects off their flesh. When you upload the pics to your computer you can see the shiny specs moving quickly across your coral...they kinda panic in the drytime and when they hit the water again, they boogie for a safer place.

 

[One Eye]

BTW, cycled water from your main system should be used in the qt and for water changes in the qt. I just mix up a sh*t load of new salt water, pull cycled water from the main tank for the qt and replace new salt into the display....you get your qt water and a nice water change for your display.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Does anyone know if the FW go through a dormant period if there are no acros to feed on? If they do, then removing all of the acros may not be enough. A waiting period might be warranted as well that would need to be longer than the dormant period.

Another thing is that I don't think you need to remove absolutely every bit of acro tissue from your tank. If you leave a trace of tissue behind then the worms will eventually find it and eat themselves out of food in a short period of time.

 

[RichConley]

Another thing is that I don't think you need to remove absolutely every bit of acro tissue from your tank. If you leave a trace of tissue behind then the worms will eventually find it and eat themselves out of food in a short period of time.

Yeah, but it might take a while, so you'd have to be willing to wait months, but in that case, you'd really only have to pull what you wanted to save.