Help with Coral Issues

[Marshall O]

Hello all. An alarming number of the corals in my 125 have been on the downhill and/or dies in the last few months. My first losses were my two clams, then almost all of my SPS, a couple of chalices, acans (only two frags, all others are doing just fine), leptastrea, and now even my cyphastrea. Here are the details:

Setup:
Tank: 125 w/ dual overflows
Sump: 29 gallon
Refugium: 45 gallon (and FULL of chaeto)
Lighting: (3) 120W "full spectrum" dimmable LED's
Flow: (2) MP40s
Pump: Jebao DC12000 (running at half speed)
Skimmer: Eshopps S-150 cone skimmer
Dosing: 2 part (baking soda & DFS calcium chloride) dosed via BRS dosing pumps via timers
Rock: 150 lbs, mix of live rock from Florida and dry rock
Sand: ~2" layer of Reefrocks.net sand
Reactor: BRS Single running TLF HydroCarbon 2 via Maxijet 600
Controller: Reef Angel

Parameters:
Temp: 75.5°F
pH: 8.15-8.25 (pH probe connected to Reef Angel)
Salinity: 1.026 (refractometer, calibrated with 35 ppt fluid)
Calcium: 420-450 ppm (Red Sea test kit)
Alkalinity: 8.7-8.9 dKH (Salifert)
Magnesium: 1400 ppm (Red Sea)
Phosphates: 0.0 (Hanna Checker)
Nitrates: 0.75 ppm (Red Sea)

No real changes to the system that I can think of that would cause any issues. I had stopped running carbon a few months ago once I started noticing issues. Soon after, my clam started getting a pinched mantle. I saw no improvements from not running carbon, so I resumed running carbon and have since. I have checked for stray voltage, and only read 0.5V.

Tank is well stocked with fish (two Tangs, Flame Angel (nips at some corals, but not enough to cause damage IMO), Foxface (have never seen it nip at anything), Midas Blenny, and 12 Wrasses). I feed 1-2 times per day, usually either small pellets or nori in the afternoon, and a mix of Fish Goo, mysis, and another frozen food at night. I thaw and rinse out all frozen food. I only feed what the fish eat. Nitrates are elevated, so certainly this could be a concern even still.

Corals that are doing well-great include Pink Birdsnest, Zoas/Palys, Euphyllia (4 different), Candy Cane, Scoly, Favites, Trachyphyllia, 2 Plate Corals, Blastos, Duncans, 'Shrooms, Ricordias, most of my Acans, and probably a few others I'm forgetting. Ones that are currently declining (STN/loss of tissue in LPS) include Monti Cap., War Coral, Montipora spongodes, 2 acan frags, cyphastrea (that I have had for 2 years and has always been a fast grower), Tri-color Acro (was my fastest growing SPS by far). Corals are far enough separated to rule out coral warfare.

Since almost all of my LPS are continuing to do great, I am leaning towards either an Alk issue or elevated Nitrates. Alk is stable as mentioned, though a bit on the low side. I would not think Nitrates of 0.75 ppm would be enough to cause any decline (I would think it would slow growth if anything). I don't think lighting is an issue, as for a while I had very good success growing SPS. I have never been great with doing water changes (usually 10% per month), but since I dose, have a large skimmer, and a very productive refugium, I would not think these would be an issue.

So, I am looking for ideas on what to change, what to test for, or what else I could be missing. Any and all advice is appreciated! TIA

 

[jdeb101]

I'm interested in following this thread. I've been battling coral loss and stumped growth for months now still without an exact known cause. I've been pretty on top of water changes and dosing to keep Alk/Calc in check but still no progress. Although the first major loss of my caps happened early in the year before I switched from T5's to LED's, I was still curious if I perhaps was giving too much light with the LED's.

JC...What LED fixtures are you using and at what intensity (if they are dimmable)?

 

[frank180reef]

My money is on the alk

Did you check the reference on the salifert kit?

 

[Marshall O]

My money is on the alk

Did you check the reference on the salifert kit?

Yes, right on. Plus I also have confirmed it with my Red Sea kit (I trust the Salifert more due to the reference kit). Do you think I should bump Alk up Frank? And if so, to what?

 

[Marshall O]

JC...What LED fixtures are you using and at what intensity (if they are dimmable)?

One is a "Value" fixture from Reefbreeders. The other two are essentially the same, except 90° optics vs. the 120° optics in the reefbreeders. Not sure if I can post the link or not, but you can find it easy enough on their website. The two fixtures on either end with 90° optics are at about 50% and the center with 120° optics is at around 80%.

I will add that there has been no bleaching, nor browning. I did bleach one Chalice months ago one I bumped up intensity about 5%. But that is it.

 

[this is me]

Is there a reason why you keep your temp at 75.5?
I run my tank at a lower temperature(77) than most people but I would be concern if my temp hits 76 or below for a long period of time.

 

[frank180reef]

I would try 9.5

When you test the standard what do you get

 

[Pat02026]

Out of curiosity, what salt are you using? Your pretty good with being in top of stuff from what I've seen and if I were to bet that if your alk is stable and things were happy before at that level that something else may need replenishing that your unaware of. I would spend the next few weeks doing a couple small (~5 gal) water changes a week and see if there's any improvement.

I have been loading corals into my tank recently and broke the once a month water change cycle with 2x 5 gallon a week changes and I can say the overall improvement in health is noticeable. Couple that with the receding algae in my display and I'm pretty happy with the direction it's heading right now.

 

[Marshall O]

Is there a reason why you keep your temp at 75.5?
I run my tank at a lower temperature(77) than most people but I would be concern if my temp hits 76 or below for a long period of time.

I have always run my tanks cooler. One reason is I have a Choat's Leopard Wrasse that requires cooler temps. Another is a lower electric bill in the winter. I realize a lower temperature will mean slower growth, but I would not think it would cause any issues such as STN.

I would try 9.5

When you test the standard what do you get

Ok, I will bump it up to 9.5. I just tested the standard 10 minutes ago. 6.7 dKH, which is exactly what it is supposed to be. I would not have thought Alk of 8.9 dKH would be concerning, but who knows. I am bumping it up today and try keeping it around 9.5.

Out of curiosity, what salt are you using? Your pretty good with being in top of stuff from what I've seen and if I were to bet that if your alk is stable and things were happy before at that level that something else may need replenishing that your unaware of. I would spend the next few weeks doing a couple small (~5 gal) water changes a week and see if there's any improvement.

I have been loading corals into my tank recently and broke the once a month water change cycle with 2x 5 gallon a week changes and I can say the overall improvement in health is noticeable. Couple that with the receding algae in my display and I'm pretty happy with the direction it's heading right now.

I use Reef Crystals (sorry, I forgot to include that!). But thank you for your thoughts. I just did a 5 gallon change, and will continue to do them weekly to see if that results in any improvements.

 

[saltwaterB]

I honestly have to say...it is your lighting......

This is very common response from LED's because the PAR value is jumping all over the place on your tank...within centimeters of each other.....no Corals can properly grow when they receive such a variance in light across the surface of the Coral...

 

[PSU4ME]

I think its your temp. No way it's your alk and I don't see lighting affecting corals to the brink of death unless you e seen color loss and months of trouble leading up to it.

My alk is at 7 sometimes and I aim to keep it at 8-8.5 and now signs of issues in my tank. And if your birdsnest is doing good, then I'd cancel alk out, wouldn't raise it to 9.5 either.

I'd increase your temp and do a few water changes.

 

[wdebenedettojr]

I think its your temp. No way it's your alk and I don't see lighting affecting corals to the brink of death unless you e seen color loss and months of trouble leading up to it.

My alk is at 7 sometimes and I aim to keep it at 8-8.5 and now signs of issues in my tank. And if your birdsnest is doing good, then I'd cancel alk out, wouldn't raise it to 9.5 either.

I'd increase your temp and do a few water changes.

I agree with Bryan. I hardly doubt it's the lighting unless you cranked up the intensity overnight. If it was the lights your corals would slowly die off not all of a sudden die. I run my tanks on the cooler side also (77.5-78.5) but I think 75.5 is to cold IMO. By any chance did aerosols or anything like that get sprayed around the tank? I would try some carbon and if you have a poly filter throw that in. If there are any chemicals in the water that will help remove them.

 

[dz6t]

What kind of thermometer are you using?

 

[RiverRat]

I agree with Bryan. I hardly doubt it's the lighting unless you cranked up the intensity overnight. If it was the lights your corals would slowly die off not all of a sudden die. I run my tanks on the cooler side also (77.5-78.5) but I think 75.5 is to cold IMO. By any chance did aerosols or anything like that get sprayed around the tank? I would try some carbon and if you have a poly filter throw that in. If there are any chemicals in the water that will help remove them.

^this.
or new paint in the house....cleaning products around the tank.

but I think it may be the temperature.

 

[PSU4ME]

It does make sense that something got in the tank. Sprays? Cats learning to pee in the tank? Any ammonia issues?

This is why I recommended water changes, what ever it is, dilution is the solution.

 

[Marshall O]

I think its your temp. No way it's your alk and I don't see lighting affecting corals to the brink of death unless you e seen color loss and months of trouble leading up to it.

My alk is at 7 sometimes and I aim to keep it at 8-8.5 and now signs of issues in my tank. And if your birdsnest is doing good, then I'd cancel alk out, wouldn't raise it to 9.5 either.

I'd increase your temp and do a few water changes.

I agree with both of your points on the lighting and Alk. In regards to temp, I lowered it by a degree less than 1 month ago, well after this all started. I can certainly raise the temp back up a degree to 76.5, but I honestly don't think that is the issue. If I don't see any improvement with the slight increase in Alk and doing more water changes, I will up the temp.

I agree with Bryan. I hardly doubt it's the lighting unless you cranked up the intensity overnight. If it was the lights your corals would slowly die off not all of a sudden die. I run my tanks on the cooler side also (77.5-78.5) but I think 75.5 is to cold IMO. By any chance did aerosols or anything like that get sprayed around the tank? I would try some carbon and if you have a poly filter throw that in. If there are any chemicals in the water that will help remove them.

Agreed on the lighting again. No aerosols or anything similar are used near the tank. I do run carbon already.

What kind of thermometer are you using?

Reef Angel temp probes (2 of them in case one goes bad).

 

[Marshall O]

^this.
or new paint in the house....cleaning products around the tank.

but I think it may be the temperature.

No paint, and no other changes to any cleaning chemicals around the house. As mentioned above, I will try water changes first. If things continue to decline, I will up the temp. Does anyone have any documentation of captive coral growth at different temperatures?

It does make sense that something got in the tank. Sprays? Cats learning to pee in the tank? Any ammonia issues?

This is why I recommended water changes, what ever it is, dilution is the solution.

No other pets besides fish. No ammonia issues at all. And as mentioned, I will continue doing weekly water changes.

 

[mvallee]

Following;
I see you are using reef crystals same as me and I am switching to red sea coral pro, today was my first water change with it. I have been struggling with some of my SPS too like you some seem to be doing just fine and other are receding and mine are getting a brown algae on them, I have high alk so that is my probable cause for the coral loss but I am trying a different salt too just because the brown sludge I wipe out of my mixing bucket after mixing 30 gallons worth of reef crystals just does not seem right to me and feel like if it is in the barrel it has to be getting in the tank too.

After a 30 gallon water change today with red sea coral pro I wiped out the barrel with white paper towels and nice and clean, hoping things get better,

 

[Marshall O]

Following;
I see you are using reef crystals same as me and I am switching to red sea coral pro, today was my first water change with it. I have been struggling with some of my SPS too like you some seem to be doing just fine and other are receding and mine are getting a brown algae on them, I have high alk so that is my probable cause for the coral loss but I am trying a different salt too just because the brown sludge I wipe out of my mixing bucket after mixing 30 gallons worth of reef crystals just does not seem right to me and feel like if it is in the barrel it has to be getting in the tank too.

After a 30 gallon water change today with red sea coral pro I wiped out the barrel with white paper towels and nice and clean, hoping things get better,

I am not quite ready to switch salts. I obviously also use it in my other tanks, including my 50 cube that does have some SPS in it. All corals in that tank appear to be just fine. The brown mix is the anti-caking agent they use. I know of plenty of other successful SPS tanks running Reef Crystals for me to now think that is an issue. But who knows.

I do think this is a tank specific issue. I have moved a couple of SPS corals from my 125 over to my 50 and those are doing just fine. That tank is maintained at 76.5 in case anyone is wondering.

 

[wdebenedettojr]

Turn your heater on then check the voltage in the tank. Could be shocking everything when it comes on. Check your heaters in general to ensure they are not damaged. Sometimes a damaged heater can leach stuff into the water.