"Herbie" drains - WOW

[Joel A]

John- Did you set it up with 2 pipes or 3? The original Bean design IIRC is 3 pipes, a siphon pipe, standard durso, and emergency un modded drain? Did you skip one of those?

I looked into the design briefly because i was going to have 2 drains on my next tank, but dismissed it when i saw it used 3 drain holes... i suppose there's really no reason why you couldn't make it with two though?

 

[JohnK]

"herbie" is two holes. "bean" is three".

The "bean" setup adds what is basically a regular duroso, but it's set at a height so that it only flows a slight trickle (this is the one with the red airline you've probably seen in pics). The point of this is that it will control the slight fluxuations in water level you will get with the "herbie" setup. Without the third drain, you will need to make slight tweaks to the valve setting now and then to keep it dialed in correctly.

Both can be considered quite safe/reliable (more so than the durosos everyone has been using for yrs), but the bean adds a self correcting feature whereas the herbie needs occasional manual adjusting.

 

[number1gsxxr]

I have a coast-to-coast overflow with two 1" drains, and have tried this method in the past. While I really liked the results (i.e., no noise or bubbles), I had a really hard time getting the siphon to restart after I turned off the return pump for water changes.

Basically, with the return pump off the, the overflow empties and the drain line fills with air. When I turn the return pump back on, there isn't enough water weight in my shallow overflow to flush the air down and out of the line without opening the valve all the way, and then going through the hassle of dialing everything back in.

Does this happen to everybody, or am I missing some really simple way to restart the siphon?

It sounds like your overflow might be too shallow. Here are two excerpts from the thread on RC. If you are using down turned elbows and the pipe is submerged in your sump, then it sounds like the overflow might not be deep enough for enough water to rise over the elbows. It's the rise in water that creates a head pressure and flushes the air out of the pipe it seems.


"Both the top of the standpipe and the bottom of the standpipe are submerged. No air can be introduced at either end. A restriction anywhere in the pipe will control the overall flow (velocity)through that pipe. Any air already in the pipe will either be purged or form an air pocket at the top of the TEE. The piping system below the valve should be the same size as the piping system feeding the valve. The LONGER the piping system, the larger the difference in head pressure. That equates to a higher capacity siphon."


"The down turned elbows create a weir (exactly the same as your toilet trap).

When the return pump is turned on, the water in the box begins to rise. At some point water begins to flow over BOTH weirs. As long as the flow stays low it would continue to flow like this. The Open Channel standpipe works like a durso. It allows air to enter and prevents a siphon from forming. Simply put, it can not alone keep up with the return pump due to the aspiration. The water level rises even higher and the siphon begins to purge air and create suction."

 

[TomD]

I use the herbie method and have had no problems.

 

[Joel A]

"herbie" is two holes. "bean" is three".

The "bean" setup adds what is basically a regular duroso, but it's set at a height so that it only flows a slight trickle (this is the one with the red airline you've probably seen in pics). The point of this is that it will control the slight fluxuations in water level you will get with the "herbie" setup. Without the third drain, you will need to make slight tweaks to the valve setting now and then to keep it dialed in correctly.

Both can be considered quite safe/reliable (more so than the durosos everyone has been using for yrs), but the bean adds a self correcting feature whereas the herbie needs occasional manual adjusting.

gotcha, makes perfect sense. Beans is nice, but three drain holes is a real PITA... i guess i could go three drains and 1 return (have four holes to work with) but not sure if that's the way i'd really chose to go or not.

 

[new2saltyfish]

so this is how i set it up?!? two of the below?

The piping now is 1 inch so i should make it go from 1 inch off the bulkead to 1.5 inches?

 

[JohnK]

That picture is the "open channel" (aka durso) from the bean drain.
The part about upsizing the pipe on the Bean is to maximize the design, but it can be done with all 1" plumbing.

For your set up, all you would really need to do is to add the gate valve on one of the drains, and turn the elbow inside the overflow box for for the other drain UP. That said, (I just commented in the other thread) running a herbie on your tank might be a bit troublesome because the holes are next to each other, near the top, and don't have a lot of depth in the overflow box to work with. The problem would be keeping it tuned so that the water level stayed just right in the overflow box.

 

[new2saltyfish]

I meant to post this in my own but did this haha my bad.

 

[JohnK]

Here's a link to that other thread in case someone is trying to follow this conversation 6 months from now

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums...cked-LOUD!!!!-return-noise!-water-slap-galore!