Holy Petco Batman!
- Thread starter smcnally
- Start date
Triggerfish
Non-member
Red,,you must be the marine biologist that the avon mgr mentioned that works there on sundays. btw: i heard the avon stores does not look to hire qualified potential employees with 10 years hobby experience,,any truth to that?
now there's a store where you have to call from your cell to get anyone to come over to get the fish out of the tank for you.. they finally get any help over there yet?
now there's a store where you have to call from your cell to get anyone to come over to get the fish out of the tank for you.. they finally get any help over there yet?
Matt L.
Non-member
Thank you for bringing this up, and based on our charter, I feel that approaching PetCo is appropriate.~Flighty~ said:
Again, I agree. We have to approach PetCo in a respectful manner.~Flighty~ said:
However, I do believe that, hidden between the lines of our statement, should be the message that PetCo either needs to take appropriate action or cease selling saltwater fish.
I have therefore updated my list of common sense requests to PetCo:~Flighty~ said:
1. Stop the aquisition of livestock captured with cyanide.
2. Maintain proper water conditions in all display aquaria (SG = 1.020 - 1.025, NH3 = 0, NO2 = 0, NO3 < ###?)
3. Provide all marine fish with an appropriate diet. Surgeonfish and herbivores should be provided with a fresh seaweed clip daily, and all other fish should be fed the appropriate diet of Hikari frozen food carried by PetCo.
4. Stop the sale of livestock that, when full grown, requires a tank size PetCo does not carry.
5. Stop the sale of livestock that requires a diet of live food (i.e., dragonettes), as live food is not carried by PetCo.
6. Stop the sale of all photosynthetic marine invertebrates, as these require (just to survive) types of aquarium lighting PetCo does not sell.
7. Stop the sale of dying, sick, or injured fish or invertebrates. Fish refusing to eat or not displaying healthy colors after ##? hours of arrival should not be placed for sale. Fish visibly infected with parasites or physically injured should be moved to a hospital tank (if available) or not allowed to be sold.
8. Update the handout provided to customers based on BRS suggestions*. Customers buying saltwater fish should always be offered this handout by staff.
9. All fish for sale should have an information brief with the price label, indicating minimum tank size required and diet (do they already do this?)
How do these sound?
There is a lot of talk about how PetCo would never be able to implement some or all of these suggestions. My response is: if that's the case, then you shouldn't be selling saltwater fish.
Matt
* All in all, the handout was pretty good, but there should be a suggestion on tankl size.
JeremyR
CRA
After years and years of seeing this same debate, I"ve grown pretty cynical on any positive changes happening.. but I don't spose it would hurt to let them know about it either.
Red,
I know just what you mean on the damsel guy. They don't get away with it, but those kind of people will try ALL of us here, end up asking "if we are in the business of selling fish", and then get angry and stomp out.
This is a tough business even when you know what you are doing.. I don't believe that a "big box" corp can ever succeed at doing it right nationwide.
Red,
I know just what you mean on the damsel guy. They don't get away with it, but those kind of people will try ALL of us here, end up asking "if we are in the business of selling fish", and then get angry and stomp out.
This is a tough business even when you know what you are doing.. I don't believe that a "big box" corp can ever succeed at doing it right nationwide.
110oceanic
Non-member
I think it would be great to have BRS get involved and to be recognized for improvements to the problem . My only fear would be that if things did not improve that BRS could get a bad rep and be associted with petco's bad history. just my 2 cents.
Triggerfish
Non-member
Matt L. said:
the info brief is on some but not all..and the info is 2-3 words with max size.
basically useless for the most part.
also,,the care sheet housing section is not specific to any one family of fish. it just states a minimum size of 30g , that's just some bad info available there.
BTW: i was at a non-petco store today..not 1 clip visible. algae grazing fish in either strerile or diatom loaded setups.
Triggerfish
Non-member
JeremyR said:
true...however,,it's safe to bet that if you do not see petco clips..it aint gettin done...
~Flighty~
Now with more baby
If this is something there really is interest in in the club we can put together a group to work on it. There are enough members with knowledge of the industry that we have good resources. We shouldn't be naive enough to think that we can come in and suggest a bunch of simple changes that no one has thought of before though.
We might have more of an impact on smaller independent pet stores (like the one up the road that has a barracuda for sale ) because they don't have the corporate machine in the background. That may be a better place to start and see how our efforts work out.
We might have more of an impact on smaller independent pet stores (like the one up the road that has a barracuda for sale
) because they don't have the corporate machine in the background. That may be a better place to start and see how our efforts work out.
One Eye
former vp of pr
We most definitely do not want to come across as over zealous activist pia.
This whole thing kind of scares me. Most of you guys weren't around at this point, but some will remember when Moe had to make a please stop trashing stores announcement at the start of every meeting. People would go into a store and state they were a member of BRS and the store sucked....I'm gonna go home and tell everyone not to come to this store! Our sponsors were even getting trashed! Most times it was about something foolish, like a dead fish or two in the tanks.Even Jeremy has fish die in his store, it's part of the deal, can't be avoided.
IF, we do anything it needs to be well thought out, planned and executed by the appropriate people, we can't have a bunch of nitwits out in front of the store carrying signs with "kill petco" on one side and "join BRS" on the other.
Part of the problem we will face is the customers themselves. Yes our mission statement states education, do people who shop pet co WANT to be educated. Half of these people are there because the brat keeps crying about getting Nemo for his room. The parent goes to pet co. Buys nemo and a fish bowl, sticks it in the kids room. When Nemo dies the "parent" is now off the hook, see it's better to just watch Nemo than to try and own Nemo...I'll go put in the dvd for you. There are some there that do want to be educated, but I think they'll find their way over to more qualified stores.
I bought my first sw tank at pet co, with crushed coral and a hob filter...whisper bio wheel. And Nikkoli just said the same thing. If you are trulely interested in the hobby you'll notice that you need more than pet co can offer.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that this thing, mishandled, could be a huge pitfall for the club. Properly handled, it's doubtful we'll ever see any results. Is it worth it?
This whole thing kind of scares me. Most of you guys weren't around at this point, but some will remember when Moe had to make a please stop trashing stores announcement at the start of every meeting. People would go into a store and state they were a member of BRS and the store sucked....I'm gonna go home and tell everyone not to come to this store! Our sponsors were even getting trashed! Most times it was about something foolish, like a dead fish or two in the tanks.Even Jeremy has fish die in his store, it's part of the deal, can't be avoided.
IF, we do anything it needs to be well thought out, planned and executed by the appropriate people, we can't have a bunch of nitwits out in front of the store carrying signs with "kill petco" on one side and "join BRS" on the other.
Part of the problem we will face is the customers themselves. Yes our mission statement states education, do people who shop pet co WANT to be educated. Half of these people are there because the brat keeps crying about getting Nemo for his room. The parent goes to pet co. Buys nemo and a fish bowl, sticks it in the kids room. When Nemo dies the "parent" is now off the hook, see it's better to just watch Nemo than to try and own Nemo...I'll go put in the dvd for you. There are some there that do want to be educated, but I think they'll find their way over to more qualified stores.
I bought my first sw tank at pet co, with crushed coral and a hob filter...whisper bio wheel. And Nikkoli just said the same thing. If you are trulely interested in the hobby you'll notice that you need more than pet co can offer.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that this thing, mishandled, could be a huge pitfall for the club. Properly handled, it's doubtful we'll ever see any results. Is it worth it?
RichConley
Attack of the Killer Cute
I think if we do do something, we should probably talk to Marc Levenson, etc, people from other clubs, and see if they can get the same sort of thing going. I think petco would take it seriously if they got letters from reef clubs all over the country.
Matt L.
Non-member
I don't think there's any need to worry about protests at this point -- no one's even talking about a boycott. We are simply discussing the possibility of using our clout as an organization of saltwater fishkeepers to enact some necessary change in an institutionalized problem, under the "education and conservation" clause of the BRS charter. No one needs to participate if they don't want to.
Rich, I agree with the possibility of getting other organizations involved, but my opinion is to see what we can accomplish as the BRS first, then play the RC card later. Thehn again, it might not hurt to get other organizations involved now...
Matt
Rich, I agree with the possibility of getting other organizations involved, but my opinion is to see what we can accomplish as the BRS first, then play the RC card later. Thehn again, it might not hurt to get other organizations involved now...
Matt
Moe_K
Stabbed by Foulke
Did you guys see the threads going off the rails in Borneman's forums on RC?
Dr Ron quit RC because of them. Borneman is taking a break over the matters.
Anyway, there supposedly is a booklet out right now at PetCo. It was produced by one of the conservation groups. I can't figure out which one.
Dr Ron quit RC because of them. Borneman is taking a break over the matters.
Anyway, there supposedly is a booklet out right now at PetCo. It was produced by one of the conservation groups. I can't figure out which one.
~Flighty~
Now with more baby
Oooooo, What's the dirt? I missed it.
EDIT:Link for the curious and insomniatic.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=731814
EDIT:Link for the curious and insomniatic.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=731814
Last edited:
OP
OP
smcnally
Tankless
That guy "Bomber" (the guy that works for the NOAA) was talking about BB systems and basically how they never crash. They were talking about cooking rock when all of a sudden Borneman says that he would never recommend "boiling rocks in water". Some one told him that wasn't what cooking rocks meant and explained it to him. Then Bomber posted pictures of his tank to show how everything looked. Next think you know, Borneman posts "Those are nice Carribian species corals you have there that are protected and illegal to own." and followed it with..."You know, I know a lot of people over at NOAA and I seriously doubt you really work there. Please send me your name along with your credentials." After Bomber told him he was rediculous, Borneman posted that he had logged Bombers IP address and reported him to CITES, then locked the thread. It not only caused a stink with the people who were reading the thread, but the moderators say that they can't talk about anything to do with it. Shimek had a post that he would be out for 7 days, but then edited it to say "GONE FOR GOOD" "I am no longer associated with Reef Central". Bornemans forum is locked, and Calfos forum is locked.~Flighty~ said:
Valexia
livingroom naturalist
Matt L. said:Thank you for bringing this up, and based on our charter, I feel that approaching PetCo is appropriate.
Again, I agree. We have to approach PetCo in a respectful manner.
However, I do believe that, hidden between the lines of our statement, should be the message that PetCo either needs to take appropriate action or cease selling saltwater fish.
I have therefore updated my list of common sense requests to PetCo:
1. Stop the aquisition of livestock captured with cyanide.
2. Maintain proper water conditions in all display aquaria (SG = 1.020 - 1.025, NH3 = 0, NO2 = 0, NO3 < ###?)
3. Provide all marine fish with an appropriate diet. Surgeonfish and herbivores should be provided with a fresh seaweed clip daily, and all other fish should be fed the appropriate diet of Hikari frozen food carried by PetCo.
4. Stop the sale of livestock that, when full grown, requires a tank size PetCo does not carry.
5. Stop the sale of livestock that requires a diet of live food (i.e., dragonettes), as live food is not carried by PetCo.
6. Stop the sale of all photosynthetic marine invertebrates, as these require (just to survive) types of aquarium lighting PetCo does not sell.
7. Stop the sale of dying, sick, or injured fish or invertebrates. Fish refusing to eat or not displaying healthy colors after ##? hours of arrival should not be placed for sale. Fish visibly infected with parasites or physically injured should be moved to a hospital tank (if available) or not allowed to be sold.
8. Update the handout provided to customers based on BRS suggestions*. Customers buying saltwater fish should always be offered this handout by staff.
9. All fish for sale should have an information brief with the price label, indicating minimum tank size required and diet (do they already do this?)
How do these sound?
There is a lot of talk about how PetCo would never be able to implement some or all of these suggestions. My response is: if that's the case, then you shouldn't be selling saltwater fish.
Matt
* All in all, the handout was pretty good, but there should be a suggestion on tankl size.
Ok, even though i no longer work there, heres what i know the company has in place, you see, on paper, they are trying to do a "good job" but unfortunately you have to remember there are people in california with old school information making the livestock decisions. Its wayyyyy too big for our one little club to handle, and it should be addressed with the help of a national club/association to really target. My personal opinion, and this is purely observation, some smaller mom and pop shops are just as bad if not worse! (none of our spon.'s all of them are great)
in answer to the post i quoted:
1) ask any fish store, it still happens. Petco has been working with distributors that guarantee net caught fish. Anyone can tell you, that they still can happen even with those guarantees, the distributors they go thru say their stuff is all net caught. AND they sell CB when its available.
2) If their aquarium dept staff is doing their job, the readings are close to being perfect. I know when i worked full time in that dept. when things were good, my readings were great.
3)we were encouraged to feed frozen foods and to feed the fish at least 2x a day, not to mention in front of customers so they could see them eat.
4) Petco can and will order up to a 210 gallon tank..they just don't have them lying around. They do carry big fish. And its up to the staff to warn customers. How many people buy boa constrictors or have had one....most of them if properly cared for top out at 12-15 feet!!!! It won't stop people, they don't think of the future. Look at pet birds, they live 50 years or more in some cases...and who buys them? Younger people who cant commit to a long term relationship, let alone a lifelong commitement. Big fish happen just like all the above...thats the pet industry.
5) I have been in several stores that don't carry live food for dragnets...plus, we were not allowed to sell mandarins...they stopped that over 3 years ago.
The scooters we did have were in with the aquacultured live rock that we had, and we only were supposed to order a couple, many took brine and did well, and many sold to people with large amounts of live rock.
6) They sell it, hence the demand. Don't buy it. They are testing this market right now...i can see them installing better lights soon.
7) I again, its up to the staff, never sold a fish i knew wasn't in good shape. I told people when it was shipped, and when i sold it (if they insisted) whether or not it was eating. Many stores sell out of the bag even, so i don't think this is a valid gripe. People should KNOW BETTER! I try never to buy fish or livestock that hasn't been given a chance to settle in. One time i did (last spring) landed a beautiful pair of true percs with brook. They recovered after a month but i went back to my rules. Its an art form to pick a good healthy fish...
8) their handouts are based on veterinarians and experts they say they have consulted. They are also there to try and sell the livestock, so i doubt they would revise them. People don't read leaflets anyway, i have handed the ones out that explain the nitrogen cycle to hundreds of customers, only to have to explain it next time i saw them with a problem....they aren't worth the paper they are printed on and not effective...people need to educate themselves....and want to learn or nothing will work.
9) besides the tags (which are lacking but give a little info) the books that we all trust and love are at the fingertips of the staff and the customer. Again, if people don't wanna know..there isn't much you can do to change that.
I am sorry to be so opposite, but i think that having both sides of the story are pretty important...I am not saying they are perfect...there is no such thing as a perfect pet store, they alllllll have faults...
My main point? PEOPLE need to be informed...How about the club offering a free seminar at a Petco talking about saltwater? They would TOTALLY be willing to let us...as long as we didn't spread the "we really hate petco" message. I think this would be more effective, even the staffers that are working that department (who most are deathly afraid of saltwater) would learn and spread that to the care of the livestock.
