Stocking "Guidelines" Question

[JWeb]

As I get closer to stocking my reef tank, I have some questions about the stocking "guidelines" that I see in many different places. As is often the case with "guidelines" and rules-of-thumb, there are many inconsistencies. I'm sure it really just depends on the specifics of a given tank.

Anyway, as you can see from my signature, I have a 29 gal display and a 15 gal sump with live rock. As opposed to simply asking "How many fish can I have?", let me tell you what I would like to have and we can go from there:

1 Sailfin/lawnmower blenny
1 Green mandarin (the discussion of adequate food supply aside)
2 True Percula clowns

Until this weekend, I thought that was all I wanted in the tank (aside from coral, of course). However, I was watching some yellowtail damsels at a LFS and I really enjoyed their personalities. Would adding 2 of these be over-the-top? If I go by the "1-inch of fish per gallon" rule, I am allowed 40" of fish... and, according to my research, the above add up to about 21" at adult length. I would be afraid to go anywhere near 40" of total fish-length, and it seems to me that 1" per 2 gal is reasonable... especially with the amount of porous live rock and aggressive skimming (I hope) that I have.

Of course, I wouldn't think of adding all of these fish at once. I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't purchase the mandarin for 6 or more months. Also, I do plan on having a full clean-up crew (which consists today of 10 snails and 8 hermits). I would add to the above list one larger shrimp, too... in the case of an aiptasia infestation or similar.

(By the way, as I type all of this and put my wishes into one paragraph, I can already anticipate the reaction: "You're nuts! Too much!"... but, I gotta ask!)

I'm surprised I don't see this question asked more often here on the BRS forum...

 

[~Flighty~]

The 1" per gallon is freshwater, not salt and definately not reef.

 

[JWeb]

How about 2" per gal?

Does the "reef" have that much to do with it? What I mean is: do the coral actually produce waste as the fish do (introducing matter into the nitrogen cycle) or is it because the "reef" (i.e., corals) are much more sensitive to water quality (which would be affected by the presence of an over-abundance of vertebrates)? This point is something that wasn't clear in my reading.

Do any of you have an estimate on the "inches/gal" for your own tanks? Is this a "good" guideline or is it really a matter of specifics (species of fish, species of coral, equipment)?

 

[~Flighty~]

The water quality requirements for corals is the factor.

A far as a rule of thumb, I think it depends on how much food goes into the system and how it goes out. You can have a hevier bioload with a skimmer (removes waste and extra food while it is still protein and before it turns into amonia) and with a refugium (plants use the amonia nitrates and phosphates to grow).

I would look into the adult behaviour of the damsles. They are very pretty, hearty, and very cheap, but you hardly ever see them in nice established tanks. They get super agressive and are very hard to get out of your tank once they are in there.

 

[NateHanson]

I think you'd have behavior problems with the damsels, especially in a small tank.

I think your first 4 fish are a good list for your tank, with the caveat that I doubt your system will have enough food for a mandarin, even when mature. Maybe you can train it to eat brine or even prepared food though. I think if you add two more fish you'll be over the top for a reef, IMO. I'd think one of the small shrimp gobies could be a good addition if you want another fish (yashe haze, or high-fin, for example). They're very small and occupy a very local niche so they're good for small tanks.

As Cindy mentioned, reefs can handle much less fish bioload than fish-only saltwater systems because the corals are much more sensitive to water quality than the fish are.

 

[starrfish]

I've actually seen (and tried to stick to it myself) a guideline of 1" per 5 gallons for reefs - that would only allow you 9" of adult size fish. I have two yellowtail damsels in my 75. These are the least aggressive damsels you can get. Mine aren't agressive at all (I've had them in there for a year). They are eye catching fish and visible all the time. If you really want damsels, these aren't a bad choice.

 

[nunofs]

Another aspect of the "reef factor", besides water quality, is water volume... in a reef tank you'll usually have a large quantity of live rock, which can drastically reduce the actual water volume and space for the fish to swim in.

Nuno

 

[JWeb]

I think you'd have behavior problems with the damsels, especially in a small tank.

I think your first 4 fish are a good list for your tank, with the caveat that I doubt your system will have enough food for a mandarin, even when mature. Maybe you can train it to eat brine or even prepared food though. I think if you add two more fish you'll be over the top for a reef, IMO. I'd think one of the small shrimp gobies could be a good addition if you want another fish (yashe haze, or high-fin, for example). They're very small and occupy a very local niche so they're good for small tanks.

As Cindy mentioned, reefs can handle much less fish bioload than fish-only saltwater systems because the corals are much more sensitive to water quality than the fish are.

Nate, I agree that the system may not support enough natural food for a mandarin. I do have the separate refugium for this purpose and I will determine at a later date if I feel I can support the needs of a mandarin. The many threads here recently about "training" a mandarin to eat prepared foods via the Glass Jar Hotel method are encouraging.

I certainly appreciate the sensitivity of the reef and will work within those guidelines. The suggestion fo a small shrimp gobie is interesting and something I have considered. However, I know they are a burrowing fish and I am still concerned my rock will topple in that case (even though I took your suggestion and supported all of the rock on 3" PVC pipe cut in half lenghtwise). Also, with a mandarin AND a blenny, I am concerned the gobie will just be "more of the same". Yet, if I do get him/her to host with a shrimp, that would add significant personality to the tank (which is my goal, I think).

What do you think about that?

 

[JWeb]

I've actually seen (and tried to stick to it myself) a guideline of 1" per 5 gallons for reefs - that would only allow you 9" of adult size fish. I have two yellowtail damsels in my 75. These are the least aggressive damsels you can get. Mine aren't agressive at all (I've had them in there for a year). They are eye catching fish and visible all the time. If you really want damsels, these aren't a bad choice.

Daire, this is precisley why I was excited about the yellowtails... they just seemed like they were having so much fun... and I was told they were the least aggresive. But, I think the consensus is that they will be more than the tank will handle.

So, I suppose the question is, should I pursue a pair of yellowtail damsels or a pair of clowns?

 

[JWeb]

Another aspect of the "reef factor", besides water quality, is water volume... in a reef tank you'll usually have a large quantity of live rock, which can drastically reduce the actual water volume and space for the fish to swim in.

Nuno

That's true, Nuno. However, I selected porous live rock for just this reason (in addition to the increased surface area for bio-filtration). In fact, I made the mistake of adding several additional pieces of the dry rock after I had filled my tank (to the top) and realized only as I had my hands in the tank that I should have syphoned some water off. Surprisingly, though, the volume of the porous rock was negligible and the displacement was minimal. Yet, I understand where you are coming from... my true volume will probably be closer to 35-38 gallons.

 

[NateHanson]

I think the blenny and goby will fill different niches in the tank. Actually the mandarin and the blenny might be more similar in activity and locations on the rockwork.

I wouldn't worry about a shrimp and goby disrupting your rockwork if it's supported on PVC, and expecially if you stick with a small goby species and one of the small shrimps. A 6" pink-spot with a 3" tiger pistol would be trouble, but the 2" adult prawn gobies that I mentioned, and a 1" candy cane shrimp haven't caused any structural worries at all in my tank.

Nate

 

[starrfish]

I also have a pair of clowns (false percs). Do you (or will you) have an anemone? You don't NEED one with a pair of clowns, but it makes it more fun to have both. If you go with the clowns, watch out what kind you get. There are some that can be very aggressive (I believe they are a form of damsel). Mine are very tame, but it's difficult to get false percs to host in an anemone. I was lucky - mine did after about 6 months of swimming aimlessly in the water column.

ps...I think Nate's idea of a shrimp and goby pair is a great one!

 

[fawkes027]

JWeb - as far as damsels go they can be hit or miss. I had a yellow tail damsel that was foaming at the mouth from the moment it entered my tank until the moment I extracted it. I do currently have a Talbot's damsel in my 46 bow and it's a very beautiful fish. It's very active and has not shown any signs of agression. If anything it's a total whimp.

 

[JWeb]

I guess you can't discipline unruly damsels by spraying them with a waterbottle like you do cats, eh? Actually, maybe a freshwater squirt is what they need to keep them in line.