Video for those that care about reef sustainability

[Andy V]

Here is a video for those that care about reef sustainability. Pay particular attention to the 5:20 mark for the people buying wild caught mandarins that will die in most people's tanks anyway. I am not some save the world guy by any stretch of the imagination, but for most people buying a mandarin is a death sentence for the fish, now look at what they have to go through just to starve to death in your tank:


http://reefbuilders.com/2012/08/24/saia-video-philippines/


I am not saying nobody should try mandarins...I have done so myself. There is no way any advances in husbandry would be made if we didn't push the envelope. But we need to be more responsible about our hobby...otherwise we won't have one soon.

 

[GobyWanKenobie]

It's sad, but what is the alternative? Only a limited variety of fish can be cultivated. At least they no longer allow them to blow the reefs up with explosives so that's an improvement, and it looked like they took pretty good care of them on the boat. I don't know, you can look at it several ways. Yes, the fish are getting the rotten end of the deal, but it does provide income for the fisherman. The use of cyanide has been going on for years, but I have never seen the spear fishing method before. It seems there should be a better way for catching mandarins. It's hard to think about it, but this is an industry. The best we can do is try to encourage distributors to take good care of the fish they catch and do our best to keep them alive afterwards. The current instant gratification generation doesn't help either. Every new kid on the block wants to throw in a fish or two after just a few weeks of cycling regardless of how we advise them, including mandarins. It's a no win situation for most fish.

 

[MisFit]

The alternative is NET catching fish like many other countries require and not purchasing fish from those countries that continue to allow harmful practices.

 

[dz6t]

Guess what, even though some countries require Net Catching, it is just not profitable for the divers. There is impossible to enforce and people normally don't follow the law in third world countries when there is no chance to get caught.

 

[dz6t]

Also, we should look at the whole distribution chain. Regardless what method the fish was caught, in order to reduce cost, there are still a high percentage of fish die before they can reach the hobbists. The fish is not fed untill they reach the LFS, there is very little water in the packaging when they are packed like sadine and shipped oversea.

When they reach a stop, like the wholesalers, people just scoop out the dead ones and ship the rest to the next stop, such as your LFS. When LFS receive the package, they have to scoop out the dead ones and put the rest in the holding tanks (some go straight to the display tanks). After several days, a bunch of fish will die and the rest will be in display tanks for you to buy.

With that said, that is why every fish is valuable when they reach your tank and you should give it the best care possible. Think about how many fish died in order to get the one in your tank.

The locals who catch fish are paid very little per fish in average. So that they have to catch a lot to make a living. There is just no way to make a living if you are holding a net in an ocean. Try to think about it, how long it takes you to catch a fast swimming fish in your tank? Then think about that in an ocean. No, they can't drag a big net in the ocean like commerical fish boat. Reef fish has to be caught one by one.

 

[MisFit]

There are plenty of programs and certifications that track fish all the way back to the collector. There ARE alternatives to cyanide collections. The consumer just doesnt give a crap, chooses not to do their research and refuses to pay the additional premium. Its consumer apathy and lack of education/ignorance that is the biggest issue. Change can only be driven by consumer demand.

 

[jt628]

It's amazing what people do to make a buck.... FORTUNATELY, I have had and only will have one Manderin, He is thriving and very happy... I waited 3 years to add him, And He has more pods than he could ever handle.. That vid was awful.

 

[GobyWanKenobie]

There are plenty of programs and certifications that track fish all the way back to the collector. There ARE alternatives to cyanide collections. The consumer just doesnt give a crap, chooses not to do their research and refuses to pay the additional premium. Its consumer apathy and lack of education/ignorance that is the biggest issue. Change can only be driven by consumer demand.

So, do all your fish come with papers? Those are some pretty strong words. How do you really know where your fish are coming from?

 

[Andy V]

How do you really know where your fish are coming from?

That was the point of posting the video. The vast majority of people have never even given it a thought. I know I didn't until I was about three years in. I had no idea about cyanide catching, and I didn't know about the spearing until a few days ago.

I doubt people would buy dogs if someone in a third-world country had to spear them first. Either the hobby gets more responsible, or it ceases to exist for anyone but those that are wealthy.

And speaking of dogs, there are vastly more of them in the population than there are fish in our tanks, and somehow we have developed a decently reliable system of papers for them...

 

[MisFit]

So, do all your fish come with papers? Those are some pretty strong words. How do you really know where your fish are coming from?

There are Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) certifications for fish, PNG now has its seasmart certification program where you can actually track the fish all the way back to the supplier, and Quality marine has their short supply chain program and a tank label program that allows you to use a smartphone to instantly call up the information on the fish, including its country of origin, its MAC certification and its date of collection. There is also the obvious aquaculture route. Again, all alternatives to blindly purchasing fish that might be caught with cyanide.
As for where I get my fish, I do know where they came from. Most are aquacultured, some come from Hawaii which is much better regulated, others come from quality marine or sea dwelling creatures and are MAC certified and the rest Ive collected myself with the proper permits.

 

[dz6t]

Those certification does not mean anything when the collectors are in third world countries. If MAC can sent inspectors oversea all the time, the certification might mean something but that is not what they are doing.

 

[dz6t]

It's amazing what people do to make a buck.... FORTUNATELY, I have had and only will have one Manderin, He is thriving and very happy... I waited 3 years to add him, And He has more pods than he could ever handle.. That vid was awful.

That is great for what you are doing.

 

[stingythingy45]

I'm still waiting to get one.But I probably wont.I mostly buy tank raised.
I agree with what Bob Fenner once said.
Something like each well maintained reef tank is a window into what can be lost some day if reefs perish.
If people do not see what they can lose,they wont know what was lost.

 

[dz6t]

MAC has been doing a lot of good work and Let's look at the KEY ASPECTS OF MAC CERTIFICATION
•Requires community-based, multi-stakeholder collection area management plans to manage reefs where aquarium organisms are harvested
•Encourages the creation of no-take reef reserves as organism replenishment zones within the collection areas
•Provides an assessment and monitoring protocol for reefs from which marine aquarium organisms are collected
•Provides training to build the capacity of collectors and communities to develop collection area management plans
•Provides training to collectors on proper collecting and post-harvest handling techniques
•Requires the use of non-destructive fishing methods by collectors
•Requires the harvesting of only those organisms that have been ordered
•Improves the health and reduces the mortality of collected organisms
•Empowers collectors to earn a good return
•Improves the occupational health conditions of collectors
•Improves business relationships
•Helps companies market aquarium organisms collected by MAC Certified collectors from MAC Certified collection areas and handled only by MAC Certified exporters, importers and retailers

There are a lot of encouragement and lack of enforcement.

 

[dz6t]

http://www.petstoreabuse.com/cyanide.html

 

[MisFit]

There are a lot of encouragement and lack of enforcement.

Still better than shrugging your shoulders and saying there are no alternatives like some people are doing. MAC certified collectors agree to only use nets, and the majority probably do. It's pretty obvious when fish have been poisoned and if wholesalers keep getting poisoned fish from the same supplier they probably are not going to keep using them.

 

[P-Nut]

this is a cool one.

Buy more clams:

[video=youtube;FSbrwwJCK6s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSbrwwJCK6s[/video]

 

[dz6t]

If you look at MAC's website and search for the list of retailers that is MAC certified, you will be disappointed to see how few of them is listed.

Also, LiveAquaria is known for their quality of fish and their care for their live stocks as well as a major importer/retailer, I don't think they are MAC certified.
There are/were good LFS in MA, NH and RI, are they MAC certified?
What I am saying is that what people here can do is to take care of the fish that managed to reach this side of the ocean. There is no control what so ever on how they were caught.
So we should focus on what we can do here, instead of over there.

 

[dz6t]

this is a cool one.

Buy more clams:

[video=youtube;FSbrwwJCK6s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSbrwwJCK6s[/video]

we should.

 

[jason401]

If you look at MAC's website and search for the list of retailers that is MAC certified, you will be disappointed to see how few of them is listed.

Also, LiveAquaria is known for their quality of fish and their care for their live stocks as well as a major importer/retailer, I don't think they are MAC certified.
There are/were good LFS in MA, NH and RI, are they MAC certified?
What I am saying is that what people here can do is to take care of the fish that managed to reach this side of the ocean. There is no control what so ever on how they were caught.
So we should focus on what we can do here, instead of over there.

well said