are LFS's necessary for the hobby, or not???

[pallobi]

this is a very debatable subject... many feel they are, and many feel they arent... many use them, and many do not... many rely on the advice they give, and many do not...

with the internet, and the internet/mail order companies the world wide web brings, i ask you, do you feel that LFS are necessary for this hobby to thrive, or are they a dying breed...

I really wana keep this convo open, yet civil... i think its a good topic of discussion... i realize that we have BRS sponsors who are LFS's, but i also feel the topic is a reasonable idea of discussion...

I myself, do not feel they are any longer necessary... i feel the advice they give is 95% of the time biased, untrue and misleading... based on product sales, products they stock, the urge to get a fish out the door before it dies in their systems, and the overall general lack of knowledge of young, inexperinced and under paid employees...

personally i feel the internet and the ability to converse with fellow hobbyist who have first hand experiences, and many of them, with the issues i seek advice for, are 100 times more helpful, insightful, and again, unbiased...

lets face it, when going to a LFS to inquire about things like eradication of ich, or the like, are they really gonna tell you the proper procedure? or are they jus gonna tell you to use something off their shelves that give them a sale, or are they even gonna give you sound and worthy advice to begin with? are they gonna tell you the proper size tank to house a fish, or the proper amount of time to wait between new additions, or are they jus gonna sell the newb some fish cuz they are there and ready to spend the money? I understand first hand, that it is first and foremost the hobbyists responsibility to educate themselves, as i am the "preacher, and the choir" on that part of it...

but again, i ask you, are they even necessary and truely helpful at this point? or are they obsolete and misleading...

I hope i worded this all correctly, as i am not a journalism major or anything, or all that politically correct... i know this... but this is what i am thinking about our beloved hobby at this moment in time, and i want to know what others think...

 

[mnavick]

My thoughts are bad rep=no sales.
Yes they are there for the business but if they are misleading overtime no one will go.
Most repudable places try to steer you right, but again it is a business.

 

[Mr.Rodrigo502]

in my opinion....the hobbyist should do some homework on line or read some books or articles before taking advice from a local fish store......i use to take advice from petco! haha......then again there are some people who work at the lfs who are as much into the hobby as we are.

when i was getting int to this...i hit the books and read alot of forums online hard core...............sometimes us hobbyist have to teach ourselves.....and have some self confidence and dont depend on others that may screw up your system.

also..."Also, do not take advice from those not willing to share photos of their own system..." (pallobi's quote) so true.........................

 

[MikeG]

I myself, do not feel they are any longer necessary... i feel the advice they give is 95% of the time biased, untrue and misleading... based on product sales, products they stock, the urge to get a fish out the door before it dies in their systems, and the overall general lack of knowledge of young, inexperinced and under paid employees...

If this is your experience with the LFS's then I would argue you are going to the wrong stores.

I personally think they are very important if you know the right ones to go to.

 

[tommy6905]

I have to agree with you for the most part, most of them are out to just make a buck. In all honestly can you blaim them though, its a business...whether they care about the animals or not there in the business to make money, not self enjoyment. I live in boston so the only place I go to is skiptons, they've always steered me in the right direction, never gave me any pressure on any purchase, and yes they are out to make money but I believe they care about what there selling and who there selling to

 

[pallobi]

good input guys... i want you all to know, i was not trying to flame any store or anything... i jus wanted opinions and experiences, as well as to share my own... all good input from both sides so far...

the important thing is, we all agree to disagree ahead of time

 

[stingythingy45]

I would not have one fish or any fish food without the LFS.
Wouldn't even waste my time buying a fish/invert online that I can't see.
Purchasing emergency meds or equipment.Some even loan stuff out for nothing.
So a big YES,we do need the LFS.

 

[Yanni]

If you know anything about your hobby or trade you know what shops are good and which are down right awful. When it comes down to it i would always rather see my livestock first hand when making purchses. Also I enjoy traveling from shop to shop to look through their stock and shoot the breeze with the owner or an employee...its all part of the experience for me at least. Talking face to face with a person about the hobby always feels alot better than staring at a screen in hopes a question of yours gets answered sometime in the next few hours or days. And when it comes down to it when you REALLY REALLY need something like a pump has died or a piece of equipment has gone south do you wanna really rely on some secratary taking your order and hoping its right and gets mailed sometime in the next 3 days to a week? Not me..LFS are not going anywhere and i support a good well run shop over some faceless internet company anyday.

 

[jt628]

I think there are 3 and only 3 LFS that Really have good insight... oddly enough, they are small stores and they are not Snake Oil Salesman, I think they are Necessary to a point... And I don't mind giving my 3... Coral Reef, Sea Creature , And Lovely pets. the first 2 have no employees and are a one man show... Lovely pets are Very knowledgable, and you can tell by what they stock... However you ask all 3 the same question and you will get 3 different answers.... So In short, the only LFS worth dealing with are small stores where the owner does everything.

 

[new2saltyfish]

I think for corals, they are good just because sometimes it's better to see things in person. They are also pretty good with dry goods you can't always get at say petco or if you need them in a hurry and do not have time to wait for them to be shipped to you...shipping also costs a good amount with LIVE things. With that said, i try to NEVER buy a fish from a LFS. Every fish i have ever bought from a LFS has died...every fish i have ever bought from someone on this BRS forum is still alive in my tank.

 

[firstimer]

i think it depends where you go and what you need. if its emergency - LFS are useful as you can't get something online right away. i do all of my fish shopping at skiptons. i think i have spent over 2k there in the last 8 months. the people are nice and helpful.

last week i went in to skiptons get some chemicals. B made sure i knew what i was doing. i had another buck of RO/DI b/c my membrane didnt come in yet. he goes ill hook you up with the water. spent like 40 bucks on some chemical stuff. its a little more expensive than online but then hey the guy gotta make a living some how right? you pay for the time that you save on the wait. they call it the "opportunity cost" in business school. other things you can do instead of waiting. quick chatter. EARNED my business and i dont mind spending the extra buck here and there.

this is the difference between corporate places vs. family owned and operated kind of things. you wont get that kind of service going to petco.

 

[jayinh]

If this is your experience with the LFS's then I would argue you are going to the wrong stores.

I personally think they are very important if you know the right ones to go to.

^^^^

well put, i troll places like petco, petsmart and such mainly to look or grab drygoods. there is a petsmart in my area that has ORA livestock! and employees who are members of this site and others. i always do reseach online for info, prices and then make a choice when im at LFS.i buy drygoods sometimes online if i dont feel like driving an hour each way to one of the LFS but for livestock purchases i want to see it firsthand. i think the term lfs gets a bad rep due to places that are chain stores and most of the time, but not all of the time the people working there are not well informed as to what they are selling. my two cents

 

[fishfry]

+1 for Skiptons
Purchaced a 120g Deep Blue this summer and was given a better price by far from them than any online store. Can you imagine having this stuff shipped? No Thx. Plus all the advice they have given me over the years has been priceless. As was mentioned by some already, we NEED them. For those that are not happy with their experiences at their LFS I'd suggests visiting another establishment.

 

[WoodRiverTroutBum]

I would not have one fish or any fish food without the LFS.
Wouldn't even waste my time buying a fish/invert online that I can't see.
Purchasing emergency meds or equipment.Some even loan stuff out for nothing.
So a big YES,we do need the LFS.

x2

Besides that, I enjoy picking out my fish and just traveling to different not so local fish stores on weekends and even during the week to just kill time or check out new ones. You should never go in to a LFS depending on them for answers in my opinion. Ask their opinions sure, but you should be doing your own research before you are ready to buy something new.

 

[Mr.Rodrigo502]

yea live about 5 minutes away from skiptons........i buy all my chemicals, test kits , food , filters pads and i got my mp40w es at a really good price......the more u buy the easier B is with u........

and picking out fish and corals personally is always good, at least u know what you are getting......

they even drill tanks for u and if u dont know how to maintain your tank..they go to ur house and do it for u.......................

so imo lfs are important in this hobby........................

 

[reefsane88]

see at different stores there are different techniques involved ,some have different overheads and systems plus sales are fluctuating constantly.so im not surprised my visits to one lfs is completely different to anothers .but overall answer is yea we do we need them cus what does a man do with no internet ,no family ,and no actual ties to ne one who knows about fish( hed be lost )atleast theres a petco down the street he could go too or a jays,skiptons

 

[Ford625]

Personally, I agree that there should be LFS's. I understand that most of them do not QT their livestock but you do have the chance to see them before you buy them. When buying online, yes you do not see them but there is also the chance of someone missing a fish or something with a disease getting shipped out. That is what QT'ing is for but it's more work. I'm not saying this hobby isn't work but it's just more you have to go through. Plus, for the most part, they can order anything they don't have.
I deal with Petco but it's the only store in the area. They do have most of the stuff I need but some I don't. Personally I don't agree with everything they say and that's why I ask questions here. To get a second opinion. I'm not saying LFS's don't know what they're talking about at all and mostly everybody here has the same or close opinion of one another. Everybody also has their own ways of doing things so opinions vary a little.
LFS pro's and con's: Livestock wise; it's good to see it. Opinion wise; I wouldn't believe everything you hear.

 

[pallobi]

jus to be clear, and for the record, i never said there shouldnt be LFS's... since a bit of the convo has turned to whether or not there should be any... what i was asking, is that is there a NEED for them at this day and age... many feel there is, and that is cool...

for myself and my hobby, i dont have a need for them, and dont find them to be of much help in anyway, but that is nothing more than one person's take on it...

I am not here to take anything away from any of them, though some are FAR better than others, and so on... and to the folks who support their local economy, that is a good thing in this day and age as well...

 

[mandrake]

I think most online sites are just LFS in different cities that not only sell locally but ship stuff too. I like going to different shops and hanging out a little and of course I usually buy something too. The club is great for buying/trading stuff but good shops are needed also.

 

[Jeff.:P]

I can honestly say that my tank wouldn't still be in operation without the help of Skiptons! I see your point, but there are somethings that Customer Service, Dry Goods, Livestock that a LFS can provide which are crucial that a online shop can't do.