are LFS's necessary for the hobby, or not???

If it wasn't for lfs...... We wouldn't know about Boston Reefers!

Very true... I love this website and people. Like I said before it's always good to get a second opinion on the advice you get. LFS's are more or less an instantaneous thing (meaning you can get it right away) unlike websites where you have to wait for it to ship to you. Not always but a lot of the better products you might be able to get at the LFS and others not. There are a lot of stores that are better than others in my opinion.
 
LFS's are needed. Sure, buying dry goods and livestock online can work out alright but where would you buy a 180 gallon tank? I go to B at Skipton's for advice. I can't tell you how many times he's given me great advice, didn't try to sell me something and was honest. I have never bought a tank or fish online. I have purchased dry goods, cuc and a soft coral assortment about ten years ago online. I support my local LFS's so they'll be there for me. I have three LFS in southern NH. I don't agree with everything they do. I have bought dry goods, fish, corals and equipments from them but I'd never ask too much advice from them. I'd go to B, BRS or RC for that. I have been in the hobby since 1990 so I don't need a lot of advice. I feel bad for newbie swimming in the sea of mis-information. You only advice I have is KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
 
First, I must say a big thanks to all that have posted extremely kind words about myself and our shop. It is very much appreciated, as is any business that we may get from any customer that comes through the door.
I can see Pallobi's point of view, in some cases for sure there comes a point when someone can get everything they need form an online shop. It really comes to someone's personal preference. Some people do not like to leave their house, or have any social interaction. For someone like that an internet online store is perfect. For someone that likes to have a more real experience and a social one, an LFS may be the preferred method of shopping.
As far as a need for LFS at all, even without a bias opinion, I would have to say yes. After working in this industry for over 20 years and at several of the shops in New England I can for sure say that there are WAY more hobbyists that do not go online than do go online. Probably 30-40% of the customers out there shop on line, the other 60% do not. Many do not even know it exists...or could be bothered. And as mentioned earlier many people would never even get into the hobby if they had not done so through an LFS. Not to mention freshwater customers...who wants to pay shipping on 6 $3 fish???? lol
Reasons online does not work for many;
If you don't have a credit card, you can't buy online
you have to deal with shipping and be there for the package arrival (especially depending on where you live)
If you have a problem with something, can be a hassle to deal with.
Advice can be WAY off...and there is no way to double check or get a real read (no face to face contact) Even the advice I read on many online forums tends to be WAY off and with no real experience behind it. ( I love reading posts with someone giving advice that has been in the hobby like 3 years or less...just cracks me up)
For Livestock you are literally rolling the dice without seeing it in person first.


Now there are plenty of issues with many LFS....but those that do it right, I can't see where one could go wrong....
Sure any LFS is going to charge more for products than an online store (this is a long beaten dead horse) It is basic economics. The overhead to run an online shop and a brick and mortar shop are night and day different.....so the markup of the items goes hand in hand with that (if there is a good business model in place) Heck the overhead from LFS to LFS is very different...trust me very different..... Good example My rent cost more than the entire overhead for any of the 3 Southern NH stores, also they have very small staffs, we have a huge payroll with 8 employees. And with all that I know my overhead is less than Tropic Isle. But the markups should be accordingly. Some people can not understand that and think that everyone should just charge the same price as some guy in his basement with an online store that has almost NO overhead. And usually never even ties up any capitol in having product on hand, they just drop ship stuff right from the vendor. Most people don't know but we will match any online legit price if you want, as long as you don't mind us doing the same thing the online guys do...I will order you anything. Once it is sitting on the shelf or in a tank...it has now taken a whole new set of overhead to factor in to the cost of the item...just not the same. Trust me no one I know that owns and LFS is getting rich off there business, most of us do this because we love what we do. I know I do it just so my personal collection of Fish and Coral are a tax right off, and to get the wife to shut up about the 20 tanks I used to have around the house... :D
 
I can see Pallobi's point of view, in some cases for sure there comes a point when someone can get everything they need form an online shop. It really comes to someone's personal preference. Some people do not like to leave their house, or have any social interaction. For someone like that an internet online store is perfect. For someone that likes to have a more real experience and a social one, an LFS may be the preferred method of shopping.

Mr B, whoever you are lol, as we have never formally met, i absolutely appreciate you chiming in... i first off wana say, i have been to probably close to a hundred LFS's between here and the westcoast, and yours is very well done, and very well stocked, and with some great stuff as i have been there a couple times even though i am quite out of the way... your shop, is most definately not the typical imo, and its quite refreshing actually... however, i dont wana anyone getting the idea, that becuz i chose to shop the way i do and supply my hobby the way i do, that am not sociable or someone who doesnt like to leave the house... I am quite the social butterfly by nature, and LOVE meeting others, especially within the hobby i LOVE... all i am saying by this, is that i just feel the statement above, is a bit off base, assuming, and inaccurate... however, the rest of your insight and opinions, are very well put, and very much appreciated for the sake of the conversation, and i thank you for taking the time out to do so...
 
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That comment was not directed at you in any way...I said "some" people, and from my personal experience several people that I know that do a lot of online shopping hate going shopping or standing in lines at checkout, and would rather sit at home than go out...

The comment that would be more suited to you is "It really comes to someone's personal preference."

You could only take my comment as off based or assuming, if you felt that it was describing you and from how I read it that was never the case??? Not sure why you had to explain or defend yourself with such an explanation. My entire comment had nothing to do with you, merely my experience as a retailer with customers as a whole. One of the reasons I do not post much on this forum anymore is that it seems people are so quick to jump to opinions and read into posts too much...one of the problems of the online world we are now living in. Nothing has that personal touch to it anymore and it is impossible to get true candor and emotion across in text on a screen....lol
 
Fair enough bud :) my apolgies...

again, i agree with much you have to say, even more so with your last statement...

I will be in your store on Saturday, and would love to introduce myself and meet you formally jus the same, and maybe shoot the breeze a bit :)
 
Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in that I would hate it if there were no LFS's around. In fact, I wish there was more! :) I remember back in the Aquarium Gallery days when I first started B. spent prob 40 minutes giving me advice. That was just one of many times. The same goes for the guys at Jays. Coming into this hobby knowing nothing and no one else with reef experience it was great to have such great customer service. I also never purchased livestock online, I'd much rather see in person what I'm getting.
 
I'm very new to this hobby but without skiptons i'd be lost. those guys have been a lot of help. I'd also be a lot more tentative buying stuff from an online store vs a shop that i can see what i'm getting.
 
its wonderful to see all this input and responses... however its very interesting to see, out of all the LFS's in southeatern New England, only a couple are being referred to as noteworthy... it says alot about the quality of these places being mentioned, and that is excellent to see... but it also say alot about the many many more who arent mentioned... overall, i jus feel the good ones are few and far between...

thank goodness we have B/Skiptons, and Jays, and a couple others mentioned regularly... even though i dont use LFS's for much if anything, I can still appreciate what they do for my fellow hobbyists :)
 
LFS doesnt have any reason to do with why im in this hobby personally... i can not speak for anyone else...

Your first fish, tanks and supplies were bought online? I am not saying a LFS is what made you get in to this hobby but it would be almost impossible for most people to get started in this hobby without them. I know if there were no places with fish and supplies readily available, I wouldn't waste my time.

My feeling is that even if a few people strictly make purchases online and feel comfortable depending on that, LFS are definitely needed in this hobby. I don't know anyone else that strictly buys online so the people that I do know, would also quit or have never got started with this hobby if it werent for them. I personally enjoy building relationships with owners and employees of local and not so local shops. It just adds more to the enjoyment that the LFS experience has to offer. I will also be at Skiptons at some time on saturday. Picking up some rock and possibly coral in the morning and will swing by after.
 
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its wonderful to see all this input and responses... however its very interesting to see, out of all the LFS's in southeatern New England, only a couple are being referred to as noteworthy... it says alot about the quality of these places being mentioned, and that is excellent to see... but it also say alot about the many many more who arent mentioned... overall, i jus feel the good ones are few and far between...

I have never been to Jays and B/Skiptons only once and was very impressed. Me being a western MA guy have been very satisfied with Kyrstal Clear Aquatics in Auburn. They have helped me out immensely over the years,free loaner tools, great deals + boatloads of advice. Since there opening in the new store there inventory has tripled while prices staying the same. Only sell what they believe in and not just to make a buck. Another reason why I think LFS are so needed.
Was previously mentioned but cannot find a loaner drill press with glass hole saw on a Saturday morning to borrow online :)
 
I have never been to Jays and B/Skiptons only once and was very impressed. Me being a western MA guy have been very satisfied with Kyrstal Clear Aquatics in Auburn. They have helped me out immensely over the years,free loaner tools, great deals + boatloads of advice. Since there opening in the new store there inventory has tripled while prices staying the same. Only sell what they believe in and not just to make a buck. Another reason why I think LFS are so needed.
Was previously mentioned but cannot find a loaner drill press with glass hole saw on a Saturday morning to borrow online :)

Krystal Klear has some impressive tanks... Always pristine and good deals, The consignment tank is my fav.... I once got a austrialian elagance for $60.00! Never been to Skiptons, I usually stay local, as I mentioned before... CRA and Sea Creature...

I had a very bad experience with Saltwaterfish.com and Now I am Skeptical about purchasing online now. 2 fish arrived dead, (they did give me a refund) and an "onsale" Naso Tang didn't even make it 2 days in the QT.. It took two weeks to get refunded on that one... Since then I go to the two LFS I really trust and buy from here...
Just my personal Preference.
 
Living near providence there are a couple lfs that I visit. 1 is small place ran by 1 guy that's all and the other is more of a business. The small 1 is coral reef which I think everyone that's been there will tell you that Jeremy asks alot of questions before he sells you anything. Always gives sound advice. He's livestock is always great quality. The other place I don't wanna name but everything is over priced. Their employees know less then anyone of the members on this forum and they try to sell anything to anyone. That's where the big difference is for me. We need to support lfs where the owners are in it for the hobby, yes of course they need to make a living and that is understandable. But not the people that are here to make a quick buck. After being in the hobby for awhile each person should be able to make that decision for themselves..
 
I do radio controlled cars/heli/planes and the internet has done the same thing to hobby shops. There's only a few around and they are struggling to get by. People think advice is free, want help with their hobby but refuse to support the source of the good advice.
 
I have been to every LFS in 150mi of me. I made sure I talked to everyone who was working, and made my decision on that and the live stock. I now only go to one LFS, Coral Reef Aquarium in Seekonk, Ma. I never buy fish or inverts online and have only got coral a few times with the help of someone else.

A GOOD LFS is where every noobie should start. It's just a matter of them finding one.
 
I have a mixed view on it. When i began in the hobby i used the LFS a lot. Now that i know more as well as understand what i want or need i find it is easier and cheaper for most things online. As long as you have a few friends to join in on orders you will never have to pay shipping for live or dry goods.

For fish i buy mostly online but there are certain fish that are just better to see eating and healthy first. For instance i got a mandarin from Skiptons that they already had eating mysis and now lives fat and happy in a nano. The fact that i could see it eat and they made the effort to get them weaned on mysis is why i shop there for difficult fish or ones with special diet needs.

For corals i just find better value online or in the club. Dry goods i usually shop online although some things that i need fast like meds or frozen foods i go to a LFS. As for customer service honestly dealing with Dr foster aquatics/ live aquaria have been amazing and better than any LFS store in my experience. That said most online vendors do not have that level of customer service that a LFS can provide.

I think generally we do need them and I would miss them if they went away, but after some time in the hobby most will realize on their own what the LFS do better and what the online vendors do better. Then the choice becomes based on preference.
 
I have to write in this thread that I feel that without lps i would not have a reef, and I don't mean Petco....i have an addiction to coral and special pieces... I have been to every fish store in Mass and each store is different and awesome in their own way. I also work for a Lps Tropic Isle and I have been working there for a year and know most employees at other fish stores. Next time at Skiptons i need to meet you saltwater b. I think i love acans as much as you do. What I am trying to say is the lps helps the hobby a lot and every one lets you use a Brs discount. I would not buy livestock online because of shipping costs. I'd rather spend an hour watching it swim before I have someone at the lps bag it up.. I try to shop around and every store has great livestock and is honest, but yes it is a business and we want to sell products, but only what helps....I have Bought corals at every store and they are alll doing great ... Prices i feel are close across the board and knowage is top notch at all stores. I am Just a Fish addict that loves a cool new fish and like the service at all stores... The main fact is i with i could see wysiwyg in a fish sale online and mabey a movie of that fish but that's never going to happen with free shipping.. i mean the fish fly better to a lps to pick up at logan then a adding an holing stop on the fish that just adds to total loss in transport to a home tank.. I feel with out local pet shops the hobby will get to expensive and not as many reefers would reef..I love this hobby as i get to see different approaches at different things.. Will be in Skiptons soon to meet u saltwater b theres a acan echinata in a a show tank i got to talk to you about lol...
 
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