I need tank plumbing help please!

[jovreef]

It has become clear to me that I need to add a sump to my Nano. Its a 20H up and running for around 6 months. I've been convienced by others I need to drill the tank and not use overflow tubes. I need to do this with the tank still running because I have a DSB and its been running for about 6 months.

So I am in desparate need of help. Anyone with tank drilling skills, OR a diamond bit I can barrow from you. I offer pizza, beer and a rare zoa frag for any helpers! I have to VERY nice gentlemen offering to help, one with plumbing experience, but No bits for the drills.

I am in medford and off all weekends!

 

[Gina McReeferson]

Drilling tanks

Hey,
I drilled a twenty not long ago. I was going to try it at home with a hand drill but quickly called it a lost cause and brought the thing to work and put it in a machine. Even when I brought it to work I found a drill press was not suficient. I ended up putting it in a milling machine because the bit needs to run true as can be. Also, you should use some type of coolant when drilling the glass, if you use just water you will beat the heck out of the bit and they are fairly costly considering you only use them once. I don't mean to discourage you but I would think twice about trying it on a running tank.If the tank were empty and assuming the glass is not tempered I might do it for you but I only have one size bit and my time is scant. I must also say that I make no garuantees that you may not recieve a pile of glass shards when I give you back your tank, I have only drilled two holes before myself. Others may have had better experiences than me...

 

[JustDavidP]

Have you thought of using a dremel with a ceramic/tile bit? This is what I and Gustavo did for my 26 Bow.

Make a template of the bulkhead fittings out of hardwood or something. Tape up the inside of the tank where you are going to drill so dust/glass doesn't get in. Clamp the template to the outside of the tank and take the dremel to it. It is noisy, dusty, and takes time, but works like a champ. TAKE your time....you are pretty much "etching" it until you get through it.

You'll need to use a spray bottle of water once in a while, but no biggie!

Dave

 

[Armando]

perhaps a good opportunity to upgrade to a nice 75G?

 

[JohnK]

I've got a bit that will work for a 1.25" bulkhead, and diamond cutting coolant but no experience drilling a tank upright. I'd be willing to help out, but I'd caution you to locate a back up 20G (LFS?) just in case something went wrong. I would be pretty nervous unless there was someone else involved who had drilled upright before. I've only done it on a drill press, Tried once with a hand drill but gave up quick becasue I couldn't keep the bit steady enough to start the hole.

If someone volunteers to help who has drilled upright, I could come out on a Sat late AM or Sun afternoon.

Let me know
jk

 

[jovreef]

HaHa armando...I dont have room for a bigger tank ... & my landlords would freak if they saw that much water sitting there.

Thank you justdavidp I will ask if either of these guys have a dremel. I'm definatly going to find a place with a 20 for backup. I've also got the rubbermaid I broght the tank up in so if all else fails and the tank breaks I can throw everything in that real quick.

I think a 1.25 bulkhead would be to big for a 20 dont you?

Someone is selling a sump and overflow on the selling forum so if the dimentions fit I think I'll just play it safe and go that route instead.

 

[NateHanson]

You don't need a drill press, but you do need to cut a hole in a piece of plywood or something that you can clamp or tape to the glass, that will keep the bit from wandering as you start the cut. In my experience it's not all that big a deal. I've always used water to cool the bit. It's easiest horizontally so you can keep the bit submerged in water, but vertically, with a plastic cup some modeling clay or plumbers putty and bit of ingenuity you can make a bath that keeps the bottom quarter of the bit immersed in water. The rotation of the bit will keep the whole cutting area well cooled and lubricated.

Nate

 

[mloebl]

You don't need a drill press, but you do need to cut a hole in a piece of plywood or something that you can clamp or tape to the glass, that will keep the bit from wandering as you start the cut. In my experience it's not all that big a deal. I've always used water to cool the bit. It's easiest horizontally so you can keep the bit submerged in water, but vertically, with a plastic cup some modeling clay or plumbers putty and bit of ingenuity you can make a bath that keeps the bottom quarter of the bit immersed in water. The rotation of the bit will keep the whole cutting area well cooled and lubricated.

Nate

I used Nate's suggestions a couple weeks ago and it went well drilling two 10g tanks, both vertical (and I will be drilling out my currently populated 75g in a few weeks.) The first tank I drilled test holes in, and the second tank I am now using for a sump for a 29g tank. I used a template I had made with different holes sizes from some hole saws, and would try to close match it to the diamond saw I was using. My friend and I found that after a few seconds it would no longer move when it had dug slightly into the glass. We placed some duct tape on the inside glass, and then used some grips to hold the template on one side, and a board on the other. The inner board I found reduced the flexing on the glass. I drilled with a hammer drill in non-hammer mode (only corded hand drill I had), while my friend sprayed the bit with water. Took maybe 2 - 3 minutes per hole. We drilled 6 holes this way, and even on the test tank tried drilling out a hole again with a larger diameter without a crack.

-Mike

 

[mloebl]

I used Nate's suggestions a couple weeks ago and it went well drilling two 10g tanks, both vertical (and I will be drilling out my currently populated 75g in a few weeks.) The first tank I drilled test holes in, and the second tank I am now using for a sump for a 29g tank. I used a template I had made with different holes sizes from some hole saws, and would try to close match it to the diamond saw I was using. My friend and I found that after a few seconds it would no longer move when it had dug slightly into the glass. We placed some duct tape on the inside glass, and then used some grips to hold the template on one side, and a board on the other. The inner board I found reduced the flexing on the glass. I drilled with a hammer drill in non-hammer mode (only corded hand drill I had), while my friend sprayed the bit with water. Took maybe 2 - 3 minutes per hole. We drilled 6 holes this way, and even on the test tank tried drilling out a hole again with a larger diameter without a crack.

-Mike

I should also note these were with the cheap metric bits on eBay from Hong Kong.

-Mike

 

[jovreef]

LOL...wanna do it again? I only need 1 hole.

 

[mloebl]

LOL...wanna do it again? I only need 1 hole.

I'm actually going to be away off and on the next couple weekends, however what size bit do you need? My friend needs his sump drilled as well, which I think I'm doing maybe the end of this week if I get back in time. Once his tank is drilled, your welcome to borrow it if I have the size you need. I work in Lexington right off 128 (I'm there usually until 5:30ish), so you're welcome to come grab it any time during the day, just let me know and we can try to work something out.

-Mike

 

[jovreef]

From what I'm reading I think I need a 1 inch.

 

[jovreef]

Ok...Sugestions please.

I think I'm gonna do a tank trade with dong, he'll give me his dry 20H, I'll drill it and move my stuff over, clean up my old one and give it to him!

If I do this my main problem would be the sand bed! I was thinking about washing the sand out really good and then making an epoxy sand bed bottom, so its just a large sheet of hard sand.. looks pretty real with none of the spike or sand storms.

Do you think i'd still get a spike with the epoxy sand bottom?

Would it be better to drill the bottom or the bottom side? I'm thinking for as little noise as possible (relatively speaking!) 1 inch hole is what I'm looking for correct?

I decided I'd get a mag 3 or via aqua 1800 for the return. Sound right with the 1 inch hole?

Thanks to everyone who has offered sugestions and convinced me to spend even more money

 

[scavdog]

JOV,

1" will be fine. FWIW, I drilled my 100 gallon stocked sps tank using a very similar method to what Nate suggested. I added two 1.5" holes. I was sweating it before and during the process. However, everything came out great.

A daunting task

Overflows running for over 5 yrs straight. Time to go...

1st step. Drain the tank down as much as possible. In this case 2/3 of the water was removed. No intense lights of course.

 

[scavdog]

Template is set up. Tape is in place on inside of tank. We now need to move quickly! RPM's are your friend. Keep the drill level and lubricated with water.

Nice job if I do say so myself!

Peace of mind.....

The only pic I dont have is the pic of spraying the bit with water from a spray bottle.

 

[scavdog]

hmm see what happens when I take 2 hours to post .

Personally, I would not drill the bottom....

 

[JohnK]

for the sand bed I would suggest just replacing it with new clean sand, it would be so much easier than trying to adequately washing old sand.

The epoxy / sand is a cool idea, but I once saw someone try that (in freshwater) and for some reason the epoxy/sand mix developed a odd looking opaque color that really killed the astetic value of the project. I have no idea why that happend, but you might want to try making a sand epoxy clump and letting it sit in saltwater for a week or two to be sure that you don't run into the same problem???

If you wanted to keep the DSB, I would suggest using 95% fresh sand and just seed it with a couple of cups of old sand. It will take a while for it to get reestablished, but that's a lot better than having it crash one way or another.

 

[scavdog]

If you wanted to keep the DSB, I would suggest using 95% fresh sand and just seed it with a couple of cups of old sand. It will take a while for it to get reestablished, but that's a lot better than having it crash one way or another.

We did a similar method setting up Gustavo's tank (NEO). It's actually episode 2 of Reef TV . Anyhow we salvaged some of his old sand bed and layered it on top of the new sand. This not only seeded the new sand, but it helped keep the milky dust from the new sand from clouding the tank when filling the system.

Furthermore, we used plastic sheeting to cover the bed when filling the tank. It was weighted down with a few pieces of liverock. When the tank was near full the rock was removed and the plastic floated off the bottom. The tank was then aquascaped. 4 hours later the tank was near crystal clear.

hth,

Joe

 

[HKAVR45]

I think the main question is as follows, given this information:

-The water in the tank will obviously be re-used.
-There will be no die-off on the liverock as it will be out of water for mere seconds.

So the question:

If a new sand bed was added to this new tank, and a couple handfulls of sand from the old tank were used to "seed" the new tank, what type of spike/mini cycle could be expected, AND are there any preventative measures that can be taken to lessen the impact on the livestock?


Joe: Have to say: I will be using the plastic method to prevent sand-storms on my next setup. Good tip.

 

[jovreef]

I know I dont have enough left over sand to fill a new tank :/ I'd have to use at least half of the old sand. Thats why I was thinking of epoxy sand. That & I would not have to worry about sand storms again.

Shesh...who'da thunk there'd be so much planning to adding a freakin sump.