Interesting video for acropora lovers

[dz6t]

Link to reagent grade ammonium chloride
Ammonium Chloride, Granular, 500g – Reagent Grade - Excellent for Chemistry or Biochemistry Experiments - The Curated Chemical Collection by Innovating Science https://a.co/d/6WwQG3h

 

[Bostoncoral]

@ReefBum any chance of getting @dz6t Dong and Abe together on a live stream???

 

[dz6t]

That will be wonderful.

 

[dz6t]

Regarding ammonium chloride, it is basically the same thing as dosing ammonia or ammonium hydroxide.

An ammonia test kit is required to do that, you may want to keep it in very low concentration so that it won’t affect fish. Ammonia is rapidly uptake by coral and bacteria in a reef tank, so if you add enough ammonia shooting for less than 1 ppm of nitrogen, the test kit should not even be able to detect it.
Only do this if you have a matured reef tank such as over a year old with a lot of coral. Otherwise stick to nitrate or feed your fish.
For many tanks, the juice is not worth to squeeze.
For heavily loaded coral tanks, it helps.

 

[reefstarter]

MH destroy Dino’s

I think that may be the big factor. There was never much worry for Dino’s when everyone used halides , even T5 for that matter . I’ve been considering going back to T5

 

[JohnK]

Its hard to sort out anecdotal evidence.

IN THE PAST
-Dinos were seen/observed/reported far less frequently in the past.
-MH lighting used to be commonly used
-for the most part, we used to live an eternal battle to keep nutrients down.

NOW;
-dinos seem far more common
-MH is rarely used anymore
-too low / “bottomed out” nutrients is a common issue / concern. (Changes in dominant husbandry, changes in philosophy about the hobby, shift in focus - easily a whole separate conversation)


Is the change; lighting, nutrient levels, or perhaps even other factors? I think there is a lot to ponder and explore, but I’d consider it pretty bold to assume we have a clear cause and effect relationship established.
Is there any available research on any of this? I’m only aware of speculation and anecdotal observation?



Going by current thinking, I’m still wondering why all those corals living in low phosphate and undetectable nitrate conditions didn’t just die? Not only were they not smothered in dinos, the corals were living and growing over years. Not necessarily as nicely colored as we might see when visiting Dong‘s basement, but certainly not covered in dinos OR dead / dying.

“the moment we think we know it all, we are assured to be wrong“

 

[ReefBum]

@ReefBum any chance of getting @dz6t Dong and Abe together on a live stream???

Abe is currently not doing live streams.

 

[dz6t]

Going by current thinking, I’m still wondering why all those corals living in low phosphate and undetectable nitrate conditions didn’t just die? Not only were they not smothered in dinos, the corals were living and growing over years. Not necessarily as nicely colored as we might see when visiting Dong‘s basement, but certainly not covered in dinos OR dead / dying.

“the moment we think we know it all, we are assured to be wrong“

According one study , natural sea water on reef contains up to 10 times of particulate organic nutrients than reef tanks surveyed, despite natural reef sea water has extremely low nitrate and phosphate.

Another study done on coral foods showed that Reefroid and Reefchili showed positive responds for coral growth compared to filtered sea water, unfiltered seawater out performed both of these foods.

The understanding is that nitrate and phosphate are not indicators of nutrient levels in reef tanks nor in nature seawater.

Despite coral has nitrate and phosphate transporters on them and they do utilize nitrate and phosphate, they primarily rely on symbiotic algae and feeding on organic particles in the water.

 

[reefstarter]

Its hard to sort out anecdotal evidence.

IN THE PAST
-Dinos were seen/observed/reported far less frequently in the past.
-MH lighting used to be commonly used
-for the most part, we used to live an eternal battle to keep nutrients down.

NOW;
-dinos seem far more common
-MH is rarely used anymore
-too low / “bottomed out” nutrients is a common issue / concern. (Changes in dominant husbandry, changes in philosophy about the hobby, shift in focus - easily a whole separate conversation)


Is the change; lighting, nutrient levels, or perhaps even other factors? I think there is a lot to ponder and explore, but I’d consider it pretty bold to assume we have a clear cause and effect relationship established.
Is there any available research on any of this? I’m only aware of speculation and anecdotal observation?



Going by current thinking, I’m still wondering why all those corals living in low phosphate and undetectable nitrate conditions didn’t just die? Not only were they not smothered in dinos, the corals were living and growing over years. Not necessarily as nicely colored as we might see when visiting Dong‘s basement, but certainly not covered in dinos OR dead / dying.

“the moment we think we know it all, we are assured to be wrong“

Indeed, you can be easily caught up in experimentation and chasing this or that to try to duplicate “better” conditions for coral growth coloration and health. In the end you are either going to win or lose . I’ve been down that road and I can say I never had any definite answers that would point to a duplicable result. I tend to stay on the simple path now try to keep things within a range regarding nutrients and chemical balance iE 3 big one’s calcium mag and alkalinity water changes replace trace elements. But it’s fun to learn and try new things

 

[JohnK]

Indeed.

I also see / worry about a lot of false assumptions being absorbed in this hobby, probably in the (misguided) attempt to chase "better".

Look at the "Redfield ratio" and all the confusion and misunderstanding that has come of that being (falsely) applied in reefing. This concept made carbon dosing make sense, but then has been applied in other ways that are completely false. How often do we hear this talk about nutrient "ratios" as if that means anything beyond needed nutrients being available?

I think it's fair to say we're all always learning.

 

[JohnK]

According one study , natural sea water on reef contains up to 10 times of particulate organic nutrients than reef tanks surveyed, despite natural reef sea water has extremely low nitrate and phosphate.

Another study done on coral foods showed that Reefroid and Reefchili showed positive responds for coral growth compared to filtered sea water, unfiltered seawater out performed both of these foods.

The understanding is that nitrate and phosphate are not indicators of nutrient levels in reef tanks nor in nature seawater.

Despite coral has nitrate and phosphate transporters on them and they do utilize nitrate and phosphate, they primarily rely on symbiotic algae and feeding on organic particles in the water.

Thank you for articulating this.

FWIW, my questions about "why aren't those tanks smothered in dino's and all the corals dying" are intended to be rhetorical. I hope to shed light / encourage discussion to challenge some of what I see as likely false assumptions that are rapidly becoming "conventional wisdom".