online or otherwise... multiple large tanks/water holding devices

dad300

Non-member
I am in the planning stages of setting up a greenhouse to grow corals (yes I have approval from the wife! :) ) I'm looking for info on large holding tanks. for lack of a better word.

plans at present..depending on site and local approvals 24 X 28 to start with potential expansion of up to 100 feet long.

this will not be a retail endeveor but will be a wholesale operation.

preliminary specs are 24-36 inch wide tanks 6 feet long and 24 inches in depth.

starting with 10-12 of them.
as I am setting up the business plan I'm seeking info on where to get these and cost etc.

yes it will be at start in the area of 1800 -2000 gallons of water

any help greatly appreciated.
 
One store near me, Something Fishy, has a setup for their corals somewhat like what you are describing. They have large tanks, probably 3-4 feet wide, a foot deep, and probably 5-6 feet long. I wish I could describe them better. Here is their website:

www.somethingfishyinc.com

Maybe you could ask them for pictures of their setup? I haven't seen any other stores with a set up like this, but then again I haven't been to too many stores.
 
I don't know a lot about this but I would think that 24" is too deep. I would think 12-18" is plenty and vary the lighting depending on what you are trying to grow in a particular tank.

I would also look at Calfo's books. I think he describes his systems to some extent in the books.
 
all of these systems/ tanks will have at minimum a 6 inch DSB. so the actual depth of the tanks will be in the area of 18 inches or so.
why a dSB? because I want it that way. :)
actually in researching it I have found that the heat will be needed for a few months out of the year... December through Feb. as near as I can figure. with minor supplemental heating during cold spells. Remember too that with 2000 gallons of water, sand, rock, etc that they will retain heat. the rest of the year the sun will provide most if not all of the heat.. to the point of needing fans to remove the excess heat in the building.
I am planning on a glass or polycarb greenhouse not a plastic film based one, which allows more heat loss.
as far as varying the light.. During the summer I will need to shade certain parts of the greenhouse to prevent bleaching of the lower light corals.
It will be a ride and a half when I get it up and running. Realistically it is at least 8-12 months away but could be sooner.
I do understand that the cost of the heat during those months will be a ton but.... I will get to live where I want. and hopefully do what I want.


a little disjointed sorry... I've got a cold...
 
dad your thoughts are a little flawed about the heating thing sorry to say. You will have great difficulty in maintaning heat no matter what rock and sand you have. You still will have a lot of water. The most economical way to heat it would be by using gas on a heat exchanger as electric heaters would cost you a fortune. Plus it;s not just the winter, you say in a green house? what about the summers? how do you plan to keep it all cool? yet more leccy. I have run large systems for many years and there are cheaper ways to do it but the end result is always the same. You cut corners it will bite back. Plus having a large fish multi tank setup is fine, but i would keep the invert section small and managable. It is far easier to maintain excellant water parameters in say 200 gals than a huge setup especially if linked to your fish system.
 
this will not be a show tank set up... this will be for the propagation of corals. nothing else. no fish.only inverts to do clean up crew type stuff. I realize that I will be heating the building. no question. I also realize that the cost will be large. my comment about December through february is that that is when I expect to be running the heating unit/s 24/7+. At present I'm looking at Gas/propane heaters. however I believe that the fluctuations in Temp will be minimalized due to the large amount of water acting as heat sinks. I may/will be proven wrong. however that is my initial theory.
fans and the like will be employed to cool the ambiant temp. during the summer. as well as screens to limit exposure during the hottest of days. I am still researching. So that i can make the best business plan possible.
that is why i asked the question that I did..
thanks for making me think some more....
 
now that is an Idea I hadn't thought about. HMMMMM. Some more to look into... Greg... didn't you do this with your new tank?
 
I read something at the RC a few years back about some guy building a green house for his corals and that was the method he used for heat exchange.

Greg did that for his big arse tank?
 
First, let me say I've never done anything remotely like this so I really have no idea what I'm talking about... Although I did sleep at a...oh, wait, no that's not it. Oh, right, I almost did the same thing you're posting about so I researched it for a few months. Anyway...

I think what Dad was saying is that the water will act as a heat sink and therefore, will tend to hold temperature fairly well. While this is generally true, and I agree with his overall point that cooling will be a far greater challenge than heating will be, heating during those cold months could still cost quite a bit. I agree with Garry that heating it via electricity is probably not a very economical solution.

In my research I found a few people that had done similar things -- I'm sure you've already found them and if not, I'd highly recommend doing a google search. I can't seem to find my bookmarks.

Cooling may (will) also require more than just fans. The only way fans have a chance at keeping up is if you can use them to evaporate enough water which may be a challenge since the humidity will be so high.

A heat exchanger (geothermal) might work for you, for both heating and cooling but they have an upfront cost associated with drilling and installing them.

Have you thought much about lighting? I don't think natural sunlight is going to be enough given your location. The research I did showed that supplemental lighting was important, at least depending upon what you are really interested in growing. You may be able to set up a light-rail or similar system so that you don't have to have a lot of lights...the real reason I'm bringing this up though is simply for layout issues. I think for a project like this to be successful, you really, really have to think through all the issues so you make as few 'big' mistakes as possible and layout of the room seems rife with potential 'gotchas'.

I would think maintaining water quality would be easier in a larger system rather than harder. On the other hand, your risk is that much higher if something goes wrong, you lose it all if it is a single, connected system. As a business, I'd say Garry's idea of at least several, smaller and disconnected systems would be a better bet.

In terms of tanks, I think it depends on how you plan to be able to access them. If you can lay out your floorplan so that you have access from both sides, then I'd go with a wider tank (at least 48" and up to 72"). If access is from only one side, I'd go 30"...36" top. I would think shallower tanks would be better; it is easier to shade than it is to light...8-12" (I guess more if you are set on a DSB).

Flow is another critical factor. I'd suggest looking into air lifts and likely building a surge system to provide most if not all of your flow. Air lifts are pretty efficient devices...you can use them to pump water into a surge system that could then feed each of the systems and virtually eliminate the need for most other pumps.

I would try to keep most of your water volume in sumps and the surge tanks. This will allow you to conveniently recover from a situation that resulted in poor water quality.

Calcium (and other) supplementation is another factor to consider... Kalkwasser is a proven, easy way (dump a bunch in a bucket, mix manually once a week..month) to provide calcium supplementation although it may not be sufficient...but that's probably where I would start.

You'll need a very, very beefy RODI system.

Definitely get Calfo's book -- he goes into a lot of details on systems he's been involved in setting up that will no doubt be helpful to you. If I were you, I'd consider visiting a wholesaler in CA to see how they work out there...

Good luck. It is a tough business.
 
Splitting the operation sounds good. I'll need to look at that as well. it was in the back of my head but I wasn't sure where to head with it. Supplemental lighting will most likely be needed as well. I just didn't mention it. I"m hoping to eliminate most of it but...As we look at land to purchase I'm hoping to get a light/par meter from the University to borrow. We'll see on that as well. if Ican find a good location with decent par and light intensity it will make other decisions a little easier.
 
Richard said:
I read something at the RC a few years back about some guy building a green house for his corals and that was the method he used for heat exchange.

Greg did that for his big arse tank?
I thought he did, but it didn't work.
 
cool

i think cooling would be more of a problem than heating
youll probably need a very large chiller$$$$$
i know green houses get very hot even with fans running,
and even with 2000gals water it would still heat up significantly
 
Kevin...

Have you spoke to the good people at Tropicorium? I too have tossed areound the idea of putting up a greenhouse... not as large as yours but ya never know ;)

Anyway, these guys are in MI, even though we are still somewhat farther N than they are, depending on where you decide to purhchase your property... I think the circumstances will be very similar to us here in ME... in my head, (it has been known be be confused sometimes but...) it will not be that much a big deal to cool the greenhouse (I think people forget we have 2 wks of summer!)... more it may be the issue on lighting it during the dark winter months ( another source of heat? maybe light at night when it is darkest and put some of that energy from the lights to good use?)

You could aslo talk to a few local greenhouse keepers... tho I was lookin ginto a thread where a guy in IA out up a GH a few yres ago and dumped bout $2000 of fuel into in the last few months... that adds up to a lot of frags!

Best of luck & hope to see you at a meet sometime!
Denise
 
another option on heating would be a heating system called kozy koi it is gas but circulates the heated water through tubes set into the tank. they work real well in large koi ponds.
and some one will know more then me but maybe you could circulate cool water through the system to cool the water in the summer months. i keep around 1000 galons in my basement for koi with minimal heating but i know it is totaly diferent then what your trying to do. the tanks i use are stainless but you should be able to get just about any sized tank from aquatic eco. good luck and please post some pics when you get going. someday i will put a green house over my koi pond and heat it so i can watch them through the winter.
 
Heating and cooling issues are just one, plus as mentioned circulation etc. Another factor which i mentioned is trying to maintain calcium etc it is difiicult to say the least. Do you realise what type of skimmer will be needed for a system that big?
 
would it need much skimming if it was a coral prop tank?

I've always wanted a geodessic dome. If you use one of these can I come play in it? Seriously, the link has some info and building plans that might give you some ideas. http://www.growingspaces.com/
 
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