Thoughts on plumbing...

[Miller]

Ok people here is the plan. Currently we have a 20G high plumbed into a fuge that sits on the floor to the left of the stand (stand sucks to much to allow the fuge inside it/ or fuge is to big). We bought a 30 gallon barrel with the intent of plumbing it into our system to increase our water volume.

Today I made enough room behind the stand for the barrel to sit. Any thoughts for the best way to plumb this all together? The bottom of the bulk head on the overflow box is 34 inches above the floor and the barrel is 29 1/2 inches tall which does not leave me very much room for fittings.

Plan #1.
Plumb overflow box drain into barrel, then have barrel drain into fuge, then fuge pump back into display tank.

Plan #2. (not sure if there is space)
From overflow box have a "Y" that splits into fuge and barrel (with ball valve on both sides to control flow), then barrel overflows to fuge. This would allow for the barrel to be cut out of the system if needed.

Any thoughts or suggestions about this would be appreciated!

*crude drawing will follow shortly with dimensions, maybe that will help explain better

 

[Miller]

Hope this helps

 

[Aquadiva]

ooo...

First thing that pops into my head is FLOOD. Maybe I'm not seeing this right, but you have to make darn sure that the lowest tank (in this case the 20?) can handle any water in case of a power outage.

Unless I am missing something, that is not going to give you a lot of wiggle room.

 

[Jennifer]

I like the plan. Was considering doing somthing similar myself.
IIRC for the most efficient skimming (protein skimmer) the water from the overflow should go through some sort of mechanical filtration (filter sock, sponge, etc) then through the skimmer, and so on. Most of the time I see people T off the overflow 1 side going through a sock then skimmer and the other side to the fuge.

So I guess the T off the overflow sounds like the best idea. Like you said might be a bit of a squeeze.

Another way is to have an extra pump in your fuge that delivers water to the barrel. Then through a bulkhead or something it drains back to the fuge.
But of course that means 1 more pump using electricity.

 

[Miller]

ooo...

First thing that pops into my head is FLOOD. Maybe I'm not seeing this right, but you have to make darn sure that the lowest tank (in this case the 20?) can handle any water in case of a power outage.

Unless I am missing something, that is not going to give you a lot of wiggle room.

The bottom tank has room for about 7 gallons of water when the return pump is off....sorry my sketch makes it seem like it is full.

I like the plan. Was considering doing somthing similar myself.
IIRC for the most efficient skimming (protein skimmer) the water from the overflow should go through some sort of mechanical filtration (filter sock, sponge, etc) then through the skimmer, and so on. Most of the time I see people T off the overflow 1 side going through a sock then skimmer and the other side to the fuge.

So I guess the T off the overflow sounds like the best idea. Like you said might be a bit of a squeeze.

Another way is to have an extra pump in your fuge that delivers water to the barrel. Then through a bulkhead or something it drains back to the fuge.
But of course that means 1 more pump using electricity.

Thanks

Ahhh plan #3.....pump water from fuge into barrel and gravity drain from barrel to fuge.

Keep the ideas and thoughts coming folks.

 

[Miller]

updated sketch....

 

[marco67]

One problem with draining into your barrel is that you will need to have access to clean it. Depending on the style and location of the barrel that may be a PITA. Just keep in mind plumbing it that way you'll get all kinda of $hitolio settling out in there.
Your most effective export of organics would be drain to skimmer compartment first. I know it's an extra pump but consider pumping (post skimmer) into the barrel and returning back to the sump/fuge.
As to where the return is I'd play with it some. Things I'd look for on the return location would be skimmer size and the amount of flow you are putting through it. If you are returning less that 1.5x system volume to the skimmer chamber via the display I'd return the barrel volume there, beyond the 1.5 or 2x I think you'd be hurting the skimmers effectiveness.
I think I'd also shy away from returning it to the return pump chamber
(and this is only a thought but that's why I said play with it some) if the flow through the barrel is too slow I'd guess you'd see a negative effect on ORP. Another potential down side depending on the barrel drain configuration would be introducing micro bubbles into the return chamber.
Another choice would be return it post skimmer but pre refugium chamber, good advantages here; extra flow through your macro, bubble reduction.

wow is that long enough ?

 

[Miller]

One problem with draining into your barrel is that you will need to have access to clean it. Depending on the style and location of the barrel that may be a PITA. Just keep in mind plumbing it that way you'll get all kinda of $hitolio settling out in there.
Your most effective export of organics would be drain to skimmer compartment first. I know it's an extra pump but consider pumping (post skimmer) into the barrel and returning back to the sump/fuge.
As to where the return is I'd play with it some. Things I'd look for on the return location would be skimmer size and the amount of flow you are putting through it. If you are returning less that 1.5x system volume to the skimmer chamber via the display I'd return the barrel volume there, beyond the 1.5 or 2x I think you'd be hurting the skimmers effectiveness.
I think I'd also shy away from returning it to the return pump chamber
(and this is only a thought but that's why I said play with it some) if the flow through the barrel is too slow I'd guess you'd see a negative effect on ORP. Another potential down side depending on the barrel drain configuration would be introducing micro bubbles into the return chamber.
Another choice would be return it post skimmer but pre refugium chamber, good advantages here; extra flow through your macro, bubble reduction.

wow is that long enough ?

Thanks Marco, I'll think about that.

 

[Miller]

Ok Marco I was thinking about this during the water change.....

One problem with draining into your barrel is that you will need to have access to clean it. Depending on the style and location of the barrel that may be a PITA. Just keep in mind plumbing it that way you'll get all kinda of $hitolio settling out in there.

The location of the barrel behind the stand for me would not be to much of a PITA to get in there and siphon it out during the weekly water changes (one plus of being a young 6' 3" guy) so I could deal with that. I could plumb the bulkheads on the side of the barrel so that the top could be easily removed for cleaning.

Your most effective export of organics would be drain to skimmer compartment first. I know it's an extra pump but consider pumping (post skimmer) into the barrel and returning back to the sump/fuge.
As to where the return is I'd play with it some. Things I'd look for on the return location would be skimmer size and the amount of flow you are putting through it. If you are returning less that 1.5x system volume to the skimmer chamber via the display I'd return the barrel volume there, beyond the 1.5 or 2x I think you'd be hurting the skimmers effectiveness.

The display is a 20G high, fuge is about 13 gallons (33 gallons total volume) and the return pump is running about 200GPH. 1.5x would be 49.5 gph into the skimmer chamber....so by your 1.5x system volume in the skimmer chamber I am reducing my skimmers effectiveness by putting 6x flow through it. Maybe I am confused here, I thought I had fairly slow flow in my fuge.

Thanks for your help, I'd like to set this up the most efficient way the first time around if I can (hence posting here).

 

[rusty18]

Use the barrel for water changes and get something like a 55 or so (3' foot print with similar volume is fine too) and put baffles in it. Then you can have a skimmer compartment, fuge, etc. (where is your skimmer currently located?) that way you have the extra water and fuge all in one. Less overflows for chance of a flood and less pumps you will have to use. (would go with something a bit more then 200gph) you can y the return and have it spit into the tank in a few different places and eliminate any powerhead in the tank (not sure what you currently have set up) You could even put a scwd on the rtn and have a wavemaker set up. I don’t know what your space limits are but if you have room for a 30gal drum and a fuge on the floor next to the tank you should be able to go this route.

 

[Miller]

Use the barrel for water changes and get something like a 55 or so (3' foot print with similar volume is fine too) and put baffles in it. Then you can have a skimmer compartment, fuge, etc. (where is your skimmer currently located?) that way you have the extra water and fuge all in one. Less overflows for chance of a flood and less pumps you will have to use. (would go with something a bit more then 200gph) you can y the return and have it spit into the tank in a few different places and eliminate any powerhead in the tank (not sure what you currently have set up) You could even put a scwd on the rtn and have a wavemaker set up. I don’t know what your space limits are but if you have room for a 30gal drum and a fuge on the floor next to the tank you should be able to go this route.

My fuge has a 3 chambers, skimmer section (water from display drains into this), fuge section (cheato farm), and return section.

The power heads in the tank to not bother us aesthetically. A pump that would create similar flow as our combined power heads/return line would have to be ~1,200 GPH. That pump would consume 120ish+ watts of power which is much greater use of electricity then the combined power heads we are using and cost 100+ dollars. We have (2) #1 Koralia's, (1) Nano Koralia and a Mag 2 return pump.

One reason for increasing the volume with the 30 gallon drum instead of buying a large tank to baffel and use as a fuge is so that the volume is increased but the surface area of our water is not, this way our evaporation will not increase.

 

[rusty18]

Why are you so worried about evap.? It looks like you have an ATO so it just means putting a little more ro in there.

If you stick to the barrel you might want to drop a MJ (or comparable) in the barrel to keep things from settling.

 

[bigdog]

what size tank would u go with if u did not use the barral

 

[Miller]

Why are you so worried about evap.? It looks like you have an ATO so it just means putting a little more ro in there.

If you stick to the barrel you might want to drop a MJ (or comparable) in the barrel to keep things from settling.

Forgot to mention a power head in the barrel to help keep settling down. I would like to keep evaporation down because we do not have and RODI unit and less evap means less trips with 5 gallons buckets up to our third floor apartment. Right now in winter we loose a gallon a day, this summer to help cool the tank there will be a flan blowing across the fuge which will make our evap rate increase so I am just trying to limit it where I can.

what size tank would u go with if u did not use the barral

Well I am looking at adding ~25-30 gallons with the barrel....so if I went with changing out my fuge for another one it would have to hold ~38-43 gallons of water to equal the water volume I can get with the barrel.

 

[bigdog]

so what about a 55 that would be awsome

 

[Miller]

so what about a 55 that would be awsome

I'd have to buy a 55G tank....glass or acrylic to make baffles for it....seems more expensive then figuring a good way to plumb a barrel into the system.

 

[Closet Reefer]

Howdy,
So, as the girl who lords over the tank, I thought I would chime in.

I really do appreciate everyone's suggestions. I really think there are some great ideas.

Here's the rub. All we want to do is put a barrel into our system. Really. We have the barrel. (And we have a trash can to do water changes already) I like our fuge. It's a good fuge. I would like to just stick with it until we upgrade (next year).

So that said, any ideas on our plumbing plans? Best ways to do it? Any thing we might have forgotten that would be good to keep in mind?

 

[Jennifer]

Hi Jennifer, NIce name by the way.
I am sticking with the idea that I mentioned earlier. IMO that would work out just fine for what you want to do.

Oh and the picture in your signature is cracking me up. Too funny

 

[Closet Reefer]

Hi Jennifer, NIce name by the way.
I am sticking with the idea that I mentioned earlier. IMO that would work out just fine for what you want to do.

Oh and the picture in your signature is cracking me up. Too funny

Lol, I love that little frag.

And yes, I must say, Jennifer is a wonderful name!

 

[bigdog]

miller if u want a free 55 i have one u come and get it