And the addiction begins....

[planereefer]

Finally got the tank where it's going to stay. I bought some shims at HD so the tank is leveled.

I just need to tighten everything up and give one last freshwater wipe down. I'm replacing the flex hose and thinking about utilizing the second return? What are your thought about that?



My next task will be getting the sump going and getting some live rock and sand so I can start my cycle.



So if I understand this right, the chamber on the left with the 2 circles in it is the first stage or drain which gets both pumped up to the back chamber which is where my dsb and rubble will go. That fills to the drain on the right leading to the front right chamber which is what gets pumped back into the display tank. The middle chamber holds some media which the drain flows through and into the return.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I'm trying to fully understand it without over-thinking it. (Lol, whats can I say, It's the engineer in me )

Can anyone clear this up for me or at least point in the right direction.

 

[STiTCH87]

Wow the sump cleaned up very nicely huh?

I'm scratching my head looking at that sump layout myself, but the explanation you gave is about the only reasonable thought I can give to how it runs too, lol.

1st area with 2 holes is 100% positive where the water comes in from the DT. Those two circles hold filter socks.
That tube there leading to the back chamber is 100% positive for a sump to pump into the back chamber.
That piping in the front right corner is 100% a drain as that's the only reason why there'd be the T-fitting to let air in and reduce gurgle.

My only other thought is to put the skimmer in the front left corner, but where do you put the return pump to the DT? In that same area?
Cuz a return pump is always in a wide open area due to evaporation you want the max water volume to keep it from running dry before you top off.

I wonder can the skimmer perhaps fit in the back chamber? Because otherwise I don't see the purpose of having the back chamber? Unless you put chaeto in there and run it low-flow.

I'd say cram a small footprint Eshopps S-120 in that back chamber and the return pump can go... IDK? Lol.

Actually the more i'm thinking about it the more confused i'm getting!

 

[Pat02026]

Skimmer in the left chamber fed raw display water (or polished by a sock)
Look at the back chamber as simply a hob fuge attached to the sump, and a return pump on the right. Looks to me like there's plenty of room for a typical internal return pump. Measure your area in the last chamber on the right and look up some specs on an eheim or similar return pump to see if it will fit. The middle section is more or less a bubble trap. A third baffle would be nice, but unnecessary.

 

[Pat02026]

Also looking at it, the water level is going to be low in that setup. Drain back from a shutdown return shouldn't be a problem since there's still a lot of available volume inside the sump itself, it will just flood all three front chambers unless there's a quick siphon break up high. With a low level like that in the small-ish return chamber, an auto top off would be very nice to have.

 

[STiTCH87]

^+1 to what he said about an ATO as with evap that water level would get very low IMO. Plus, ATOs are just awesome anyways. =]

 

[planereefer]

Also looking at it, the water level is going to be low in that setup. Drain back from a shutdown return shouldn't be a problem since there's still a lot of available volume inside the sump itself, it will just flood all three front chambers unless there's a quick siphon break up high. With a low level like that in the small-ish return chamber, an auto top off would be very nice to have.

I'm running out real quick, but there are two siphons on the drains on the back


Is that what you are talking about?

I believe the skimmer sits in the first chamber where the drains come in. I'm gonna do some digging on the sump/refugium.

I couldn't find a replacement for the spa flex that I though was flexible enough, I'm gonna have to either find a pool store on Monday or use black flexible hose, similar to what the returns are using. I don't believe there would be issues using the black hose, does anyone else? It's 1" drains with 3/4" returns btw.

Thanks!

 

[Pat02026]

The siphon I was referring to is the suction of the water in the return line falling back down to the sump when the return pump shuts off pulling water out of the display. If your return enters the tank through the back glass, depending on the configuration, usually will have a small 1/8" hole drilled in the bottom of the plumbing inside the tank so as the water level drops below the hole it pulls in air to "break the siphon" and prevent additional water beyond the tanks overflow level from entering the sump and causing a flood. Most of the time though we just run the end of the return locline (if thats what your tank is equipped with) slightly below the surface of the water so as the display level drops, the return will stop pulling water back after only 1/2" or so of water. Forget about check valves, they will fail in saltwater and it will happen when you need it to do its job!!

 

[STiTCH87]

+1 on check valves. I installed one hoping it'd work. And when I shut off my return pump, guess what happens, lol.
Buuut I also have my sump set up where it can't overflow because my return line goes dry long before the sump overflows. =]
If you make sure your return line outlet is more or less right at water surface level in your DT, you shouldn't have to worry about a sump flood at all.

 

[planereefer]

I think I understand what you mean Pat. The tank came with 1 3/4" return with a locline, it sort of looks like the end of a vacuum cleaner attachment, I'll snap a pic of of it and show you. I am thinking about utilizing the second return to give me some different options for currents and whatnot.

Other than some Live Rock and Live Sand, I'd like some opinions on my list from MarineDepot. I'm thinking of going with a MD9.5 as my single pump to power the ReefOctopus skimmer, as well as provide flow into the refugium and enough to provide some decent flow to the two 3/4" returns.



And here's the pic of the locline return

 

[planereefer]

The last thing I did for the night was replace the starboard in the sump and refugium



As well as put some on the bottom of the tank to help protect against falling rocks.

 

[Joshbd]

Tank looks great, nice job on the cleanup! I'm glad I could send the tank to a good home! So, to echo a few comments and add a few suggestions.

First, in terms of the sump, it seems you have it pretty much figured out. The water drains down from overflow down into the two filter sock holders (back left). From there, some of the water is pumped up into the refugium section where I kept about 4-5" of miracle mud, some chaeto and extra live rock. The refugium light is built into the stand and usually run on reverse light cycle from your main lights to help stabilize ph at night. A replacement fuge bulb can be easily purchased at home depot, as can the blue spa-flex tubing you are looking for. It's usually high up on the shelves though, so you have to ask. Also, I shot for about 250 or so GPH through the fuge and used a MaxiJet 900. It's cheap, silent, low energy, and very minimal heat. Lastly, I found the drain from the refugium worked best when rotated clockwise so it's at an angle and water exits under the right baffle. That way there is less splashing and any bubbles will rise up into the bubble trap rather than toward your return pump

The front left section is for the skimmer, and I usually kept the water level a little higher than the left (lower) baffle using an ATO. The Octopus Skimmer you picked out from Marine Depot should fit, I would just double check the footprint. I had the Avast Marine ATO, and it worked great. I'd say an ATO is pretty much a "must have", as the tank can evaporate close to a gallon a day in the summer, and stable water level is requisite for a skimmer to run effectively (although maybe not a recirculating skimmer?). I also had the heater in this section along the left wall.

The middle front is exactly what folks have said, a bubble trap. I found that it worked well without a third baffle, especially when you cut a rectangular piece of blue filter pad to sit on top of that eggcrate. I also sat a media bag full of GFO and GAC on top of that section to run the media passively.

Finally, the front right section of the sump is for the return pump. I had a Tunze Silence at about 700gph that I like alot. The way the return nozzle is set up (close to the surface of the display), there is very little back siphoning when you turn the return pump off. I did have a one way valve installed anyway, and never had a problem. I'd recommend installing one simply because it will keep your skimmer from possibly overflowing when you shut off the return to feed, and even if it were to fail someday, no big deal because the sump has plenty of extra room! EDIT -- Skimmer overflow might not be a problem for you anyway if you go with the recirculating skimmer attached to the return...

Oh, one other thing, I might go with two smaller power heads rather than the one larger one. It will make it easier to get a wider flow pattern without blowing sand all over the place.

Good luck with build, looks great so far and can't wait to see it in action!

 

[planereefer]

Tank looks great, nice job on the cleanup! I'm glad I could send the tank to a good home! So, to echo a few comments and add a few suggestions.

First, in terms of the sump, it seems you have it pretty much figured out. The water drains down from overflow down into the two filter sock holders (back left). From there, some of the water is pumped up into the refugium section where I kept about 4-5" of miracle mud, some chaeto and extra live rock. The refugium light is built into the stand and usually run on reverse light cycle from your main lights to help stabilize ph at night. A replacement fuge bulb can be easily purchased at home depot, as can the blue spa-flex tubing you are looking for. It's usually high up on the shelves though, so you have to ask. Also, I shot for about 250 or so GPH through the fuge and used a MaxiJet 900. It's cheap, silent, low energy, and very minimal heat. Lastly, I found the drain from the refugium worked best when rotated clockwise so it's at an angle and water exits under the right baffle. That way there is less splashing and any bubbles will rise up into the bubble trap rather than toward your return pump

The front left section is for the skimmer, and I usually kept the water level a little higher than the left (lower) baffle using an ATO. The Octopus Skimmer you picked out from Marine Depot should fit, I would just double check the footprint. I had the Avast Marine ATO, and it worked great. I'd say an ATO is pretty much a "must have", as the tank can evaporate close to a gallon a day in the summer, and stable water level is requisite for a skimmer to run effectively (although maybe not a recirculating skimmer?). I also had the heater in this section along the left wall.

The middle front is exactly what folks have said, a bubble trap. I found that it worked well without a third baffle, especially when you cut a rectangular piece of blue filter pad to sit on top of that eggcrate. I also sat a media bag full of GFO and GAC on top of that section to run the media passively.

Finally, the front right section of the sump is for the return pump. I had a Tunze Silence at about 700gph that I like alot. The way the return nozzle is set up (close to the surface of the display), there is very little back siphoning when you turn the return pump off. I did have a one way valve installed anyway, and never had a problem. I'd recommend installing one simply because it will keep your skimmer from possibly overflowing when you shut off the return to feed, and even if it were to fail someday, no big deal because the sump has plenty of extra room! EDIT -- Skimmer overflow might not be a problem for you anyway if you go with the recirculating skimmer attached to the return...

Oh, one other thing, I might go with two smaller power heads rather than the one larger one. It will make it easier to get a wider flow pattern without blowing sand all over the place.

Good luck with build, looks great so far and can't wait to see it in action!

Thanks Josh, you answered pretty much all my remaining questions regarding the tank and sump/refugium.

I pretty much just need pumps, live sand and rock, which I think I'm going to go with mostly base rock and a few select pieces of LR to seed with. Is it recommended if you are using live sand, to seed with a cupful of sand from a well established, pest-free tank?

 

[STiTCH87]

I'd recommend it. Never hurts. All the LR in my 5g pico came from a 11 year old reef tank! The sand is a cup from a 5 year old pest free white sand reef too.

 

[planereefer]

I'd recommend it. Never hurts. All the LR in my 5g pico came from a 11 year old reef tank! The sand is a cup from a 5 year old pest free white sand reef too.

I think I'm going to do something similar. I've managed to purchase or I should say going to be purchasing 60-75# of LR and about 40# of live sand from a tank that has been established for 3 years. I've been doing some research and can't seem to find a clear answer. I'm not really sure how to start. I have a MD9.5 that I'm temporarily going to use till I can get my hands on a tunze silence. I'm going to run a single pump with a t and ball valve to control the flow to the refugium and a t and ball valve to control the flow to the returns.

Here's where I am a little lost, or confused. I'll be picking up the LR and LS for out in Western MA. It's probably going to be 60 - 90 minute drive depending, when I get back do I need to do anything to the rocks and sand or can I just put them in the tank and fill it with some pre-mixed RODI water?

I've read some threads where people cooked the rocks for a few months after driving less than an hour with them. Should I expect a large amount of die-off?

Also, should I have the tank prefilled with premixed RODI and then do my aquascaping and lay down the sand or put everything in and then pump the water in from a barrel holding the premix RODI? I think premix water already flowing through the tank and adding everything to that would be the easiest and maybe the best option.

Thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Pat02026]

If you plan on using sand from an established tank, thoroughly wash 90% of it and use the other 10% live to seed your sandbed. I personally started a tank once with 60lb of few year old live sand, unknowingly, and that tank only survived about two months. Cyano, algae, dinos everything you dont want happened within three weeks of starting the tank. As long as the rocks dont have any nusiance algae, put them right in the tank. Its going to cycle prettymuch no matter what you do. For some it happens so quick they hardly even notice it. Plan on it sitting empty and doing water tests every few days for 3-6 weeks. If it is nice rock and you can keep it submerged for the ride home, Ill bet you wont hardly notice an ammonia spike and you will be able to add a CUC within two or three weeks. This is my opinion from my experiences.

 

[planereefer]

Thanks Pat, if I can't for some reason keep them submerged, would a wet towel laid over the rocks help?

 

[Joshbd]

Ya, keeping that much rock submerged is going to be near impossible during transport. If the ride is only 1.5hrs or so, just wrap the rocks to the best of your ability with wet paper towels and they will be perfectly fine.

I agree with above as well, no need to specifically "cook" the rock as long as it looks fairly clean and algae free. I would, however, give both the rock and sand a good rinse with fresh RODI water either way. If you are getting 60-70 lbs, you are going to have plenty of options for your aquascape. Realistically, I can't imagine using much more than half of that for the scape in your display if you intended to keep a fairly open look (I also put a bunch of the extra rock in the fuge). Flow should also be a key consideration in your scape to ensure that there aren't any dead spots for detritus to collect, which is another plus for open/minimalist style scapes, when possible.

Originally, I tried going with the "stacking" route and just resting rocks on top of each other to make my scape, but this can be extremely frustrating. I found it really hard to strike a balance between interesting appearance, and not going to fall down making a giant mess / crush corals. This time around, I put my primary structure together using epoxy, which allowed for more interesting shapes, as well as stability. Just a thought.

 

[planereefer]

Thanks for tip Josh, I'm assuming the epoxy is waterproof to the point where I can apply it underwater. I read everywhere that 1 - 2#/gal is standard, so I figured that was enough to cover me plus a little extra so I can pick and choose. I figured I would run 1" to 1 1/2" sandbed in the tank and then a 4" DSB in the fuge with some of the smaller rocks (if there are any).

I think tomorrow after flight school, I'm going to run and get a heater, pump and a saltwater test kit. I'm hoping to pick up some pre-mixed salt-water tomorrow as well to get me going this one time, as the distance my RODI machine is from the tank means it will take a little bit over a day to fill. Not a problem for water changes or anything like that, I just don't have my water barrel for mixing my saltwater just yet. Working on that tomorrow too

Worst case scenario, I'll have to submerge the rocks when I get home, and through in a PH and temp and let them sit a day but again, that's worst case scenario. I'm hoping to be starting my cycle tomorrow night.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of updates and questions coming!

 

[planereefer]

Sweet! Got my water actually sitting around and I didn't even know it

I'm off to get my saltwater test kit, some salt, heater and pump....

It's on like Donkey Kong!

 

[jamesdong009]

Looks like you're off to a great start! Patience and education is everything in this hobby. A fat wallet doesn't help either