Choosing an overflow, return, and return pump for my new tank.

[STiTCH87]

Just ordered a 40 breeder (36x18x16) tank today, and need help planning an overflow, return, and return pump.

I was thinking the glass-holes 700gph kit for an overflow.

Return should I do 1/2" or 3/4"? What gph pump should I get?
I keep hearing the phrase "headloss". What is it and what do I need to know about it?

Basically, i've never had a sump before and need help planning exactly how to do everything involving one.
The sump itself will be a 15 gallon with a reef octopus skimmer rated at 100gph.

 

[JohnK]

Head loss is the amount of flow you lose when the pump is pushing water up hill, and the flow loss from friction as you push water through the plumbing parts. Essentially the amount of back pressure the pump has to fight against.

To start with, 1 foot for each foot the plumbing goes up, and add 1 foot for each 90 degree bend. It's a little more complicated than that, but that will get you in the ball park. Once you know that "head loss" or "head height" you can look up the flow chart for any given pump and see how it should perform.

Edit, here's a flow chart. Compare feet of head vs GPM (then multiply by 60)
http://www.panworldamericas.com/PX/60Hz/A3400325.pdf

 

[STiTCH87]

plumbing will go up roughly 3 feet i'd guess and i'm gonna use spa flex up to a 90 elbow at the return. So that would be 4 feet? Right? I get the feeling i'm gonna need the tank, stand, sump, and a tape measure in the hand to figure all of this out...

What about a glass-holes 700gph overflow
a 1/2 locline return
and a sicce 1.5 357gph return pump?

Or is there really no good way to plan ahead without all my stuff here?

 

[P-Nut]

This is how I do it. Go to HD, and get a pump. Throw it in the tank, if it works, keep it. If you want something more powerful return it and get another pump. HD doesn't ask questions.

Every time I tried to calculate the waterflow, I would get a headache. There are too many variables.

 

[STiTCH87]

Home Depot for a pump???

Erm, nahhh lol. Thanks for that suggestion, but this tank is going in a bedroom and if you've never heard a Sicce pump run before, well, neither have I (hint).

Maybe I should just find someone who already has a 40 breeder reef and just 100% copy their setup. Lol. People tend to do that. Hey, if it works...

 

[P-Nut]

Home Depot for a pump???

Erm, nahhh lol. Thanks for that suggestion, but this tank is going in a bedroom and if you've never heard a Sicce pump run before, well, neither have I (hint).

Maybe I should just find someone who already has a 40 breeder reef and just 100% copy their setup. Lol. People tend to do that. Hey, if it works...

Are you looking for a special pump? The pumps they sell for ponds work just fine, they are the same kind of pumps. Unless you want something that will go outside your tank. Then you won't find that at HD.

I have used HD pumps as returns for 5 years and never had a problem. And I have also been using them on my ponds waterfall for the past 4 years.

 

[animal877]

im setting up a 75 g tank as we speak and my tank has a built in overflow so i cant help u much there, however i can help (a little) with the return. im getting a mag 7 (comming in the mail) and am going to use a simple plastic tube that u can get at home depot for pretty cheap and it make a lot smoother incline for the water. then im going to put what i call a pinch witch is just a mettle ring with a screw to tighten it in the middle so i can lower the flow of water easy. what im saying is get a good size pump you can always limit the flow. just my input i new to the sump thing to so dont worry this is my first but i can let you know how the mag 7 does

 

[STiTCH87]

That'd be great if you kept me informed on how your sump setup does.

And to P-Nut. Didn't want to come off as rude, it's just that the pumps used for ponds tend to be very noisy from my own personal experience and they also generate a great deal of heat compared to many aquarium-specific pumps built around the fact of heat being an issue. Granted i've only dealt with mostly Beckett pumps, but of those and a few others (to pump out pool liners) I have yet to have found a quiet one.

Since a Sicce has a synchronized drive, and because of how it's designed in general, it gives off virtually no heat, uses extremely low electricity, and is whisper quiet.
Had one on the skimmer of my old 29g and my fan was louder than the skimmer.

I'm aiming to keep this whole setup as quiet as possible.

If any of you on here have seen my old 29g, you can attest for me; my reef tanks are the quietest. Even with the skimmer I had on my 29g, it sounded like a small fan at the most.

 

[P-Nut]

That'd be great if you kept me informed on how your sump setup does.

And to P-Nut. Didn't want to come off as rude, it's just that the pumps used for ponds tend to be very noisy from my own personal experience and they also generate a great deal of heat compared to many aquarium-specific pumps built around the fact of heat being an issue. Granted i've only dealt with mostly Beckett pumps, but of those and a few others (to pump out pool liners) I have yet to have found a quiet one.

Since a Sicce has a synchronized drive, and because of how it's designed in general, it gives off virtually no heat, uses extremely low electricity, and is whisper quiet.
Had one on the skimmer of my old 29g and my fan was louder than the skimmer.

I'm aiming to keep this whole setup as quiet as possible.

If any of you on here have seen my old 29g, you can attest for me; my reef tanks are the quietest. Even with the skimmer I had on my 29g, it sounded like a small fan at the most.

I believe you. Each person has their own preference.
Anyways, I know there are some charts out there that have a rough estimate on pumps and which one you need. If you find anything new, please post it.

 

[Kungfukid]

Hi stitch

I think the 700gph flow kit from glass-hole should be very good for Overflow on the 40g breeder tank.

For the return you should go with 3/4" bulkhead, the 1/2" is too narrow

There are lots of pump available but I really like the Eheim and the maxijet pump. Either Eheim 1262, maxijet-1800 or a mag drive 5/7 should provide enough horse power for the return on that tank.
I had the mag5 on my 58g before and it was fine. I am now using maxijet-1800 on my 40g and I really like it. Very quiet and low power
The Eheim I believe is a very good pump too for return too if you could afford

Just a tip on the return, always have a vale on the retun line just in case your overflow box could not keep up with the return, in that case you will need to restrict some flw on the return line.

PVC on the return and drain line is cleaner, cheaper and more professional than flex hose.
Most advance reefers used hard pvc

 

[STiTCH87]

Does restricting the flow on the return wear out the pump quicker because it is working against the restriction?

I have heard great things about Eheim pumps, but the price is a bit scary. IDK.
That Maxi-Jet is a nice price. I'll have to look into that. You say you really like yours?

Oh, and about PVC, doesn't it get gunked up with crud over time? Cuz I know the intake of my old HOB skimmer and the intake on my filter are plastic tubes and they get gunked up and I clean them every month. How do you clean the PVC pipes of a overflow and return? Or don't you?

Almost there!

I have now confirmed a 700gph overflow, 3/8 loc line return, and a few ideas for pumps.

Do I have my return line pointed towards the front of the tank, or toward the MP10wES that will be on the left wall?

 

[JohnK]

Does restricting the flow on the return wear out the pump quicker because it is working against the restriction?

Nope, logically you would think so, but in fact restricting the output of a centrifigual pump doesn't increase wear, and in fact will reduce electricity consumption.

 

[STiTCH87]

Oh no kidding. Well that is very convenient then.

Thank you everyone very much for your help! This has given me much information and I have now decided upon:

Glass-Holes 700gph Overflow Kit
Glass-Holes 3/4" Return Loc-Line kit
Sicce 3.0 714gph Return Pump (608GPH @ 3 feet)
3/4" PVC plumbing (45 degree bend from sump, going straight up the back of the tank, to a gate valve to adjust return flow, back to a 3/4" PVC going to a 90 degree elbow to the Loc-Line return.

 

[Kungfukid]

why you have to order the 40g breeder.
Every Petco have them and is now on sale for just $40.

 

[STiTCH87]

why you have to order the 40g breeder.
Every Petco have them and is now on sale for just $40.

Because it's a starfire rimless with 3/8" glass as opposed to the non-starfire rimmed tank with thin glass. And you can't de-rim a 40 breeder safely so I figured why not custom order. Plus now I can be in the low-iron club. Lol. My tank has anemia!

 

[jjhall5150]

Thank you for this thread. I have a similar setup which I am starting to plumb for the first time. Was trying to decide on Flex vs PVC and also what pump I should get.

I also have the 700gph overflow and the 3/4 return from Glass Holes and they look really nice when installed.

After watching some YouTube videos, I am a fan of the Sicce pumps and most likely that is where I am leaning toward for purchasing

 

[Kungfukid]

Because it's a starfire rimless with 3/8" glass as opposed to the non-starfire rimmed tank with thin glass. And you can't de-rim a 40 breeder safely so I figured why not custom order. Plus now I can be in the low-iron club. Lol. My tank has anemia!

Who makes them ?

just so you know

for the 700gph Glass-hole overflow box, the hole on the glass needs to be 2 3/8" in order to fit the 1.5" bulkhead

For 3/4" return lock line - the hole on the glass needs to be 1.5" to fit the 3/4" bulkhead


I have the so called Super Nano con Dientes Glass-holes Overflow Box on my 40g and it works just perfect.

For the sump, I would suggest go with the 20g instead of the 15g, it gives you a little bit of extra height for protection (unless you have limited space under the stand) and they are easy to get ($20 from Petco)


good luck with the setup

 

[jjhall5150]

If you purchase both the over flow and return kit from Glass-Holes like I did, they include the correct drill bit in the kit.

 

[Kungfukid]

If you purchase both the over flow and return kit from Glass-Holes like I did, they include the correct drill bit in the kit.

Since you order a custom rimless tank from the glass company, mind well have them drill the hole for you.
I would pay a little extra for them to do that rather than drill the holes myself on a custom rimless tank.

let me guess, did you order from ADA glass manufacture?

 

[STiTCH87]

Thank you for this thread. I have a similar setup which I am starting to plumb for the first time. Was trying to decide on Flex vs PVC and also what pump I should get.

I also have the 700gph overflow and the 3/4 return from Glass Holes and they look really nice when installed.

After watching some YouTube videos, I am a fan of the Sicce pumps and most likely that is where I am leaning toward for purchasing

Glad I could help! Yeah the Sicce pumps are awesome and 99% silent. They also have a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY!!! Beat that!!!

Who makes them ?

just so you know

for the 700gph Glass-hole overflow box, the hole on the glass needs to be 2 3/8" in order to fit the 1.5" bulkhead

For 3/4" return lock line - the hole on the glass needs to be 1.5" to fit the 3/4" bulkhead


I have the so called Super Nano con Dientes Glass-holes Overflow Box on my 40g and it works just perfect.

For the sump, I would suggest go with the 20g instead of the 15g, it gives you a little bit of extra height for protection (unless you have limited space under the stand) and they are easy to get ($20 from Petco)


good luck with the setup

Glass-Holes.com sends the proper sized glass saws included in the kits. =]
And the tank and stand are custom made by GlassCages.com
The sump I already have on hold (idk the gal. yet) from a fellow member.

Since you order a custom rimless tank from the glass company, mind well have them drill the hole for you.
I would pay a little extra for them to do that rather than drill the holes myself on a custom rimless tank.

let me guess, did you order from ADA glass manufacture?

No it's from GlassCages.com and the reason I am drilling it myself is because without them having the overflow in their hand, there's no way to guarantee the hole is exactly placed where i'd need it to be. I'm not afraid to drill a tank myself. I was, then I read so many people saying how easy it was and saw so many vids that I feel prepared to do it myself.