Flatworm Exit or Levamisole Hydrochloride powder

[Leroy]

It's not a good feeling seeing flatworms on corals as I began to move them from one tank to another placing them in containers to acclimate and low and behold their they are. So now that my stomach went into knots knowing what I have to do to rid the pests and I'm not going about it half a$$ed either.
Called one place looking for Flatworm Exit and they were out so my other alternative was to look into Levamisole Hydrochloride powder from Tractor Supply in Merrimack NH. Seems the correct mix is 1/2 teaspoon to 240 ML of RO water and dose at 1-1.5 ML per gallon of tank volume. The price is less and more effective than FWE. I've read up on other post/forums and will continue to read more on what I need to do till I've covered all to be understood.
I will be removing corals to Rubbermaid container for a Levamisole treatment then fresh water dip minus the small amount of SPS that will be treated in the tank. I will quarantine all sensitive animals and fish in a 29 gallon for a day or two. I will have a canister filter filled with 4 large media bags of charcoal and I'll have at least 50 gals of extra heated pre made salt water dosed to the same Calc, Alk and Mag that will be done for a water change in the 90 gal to match the same water parameters infected and 45 gals of heated RO water for fresh water dip as needed. The canister filter will be used to siphon out the dead flat worms and filter through 3 filter socks used only as needed then I'll do 20% or more water change later. Canister filter will be used later with 3 to 4 media bags filled with charcoal. All equipment will be running minus any carbon or Purigen to allow the treatment to pass through the entire water column. Skimmer air venturi closed off, Phosban Reactor with charcoal mix will be shut down and run through RO water bucket to kill any stray worms. A large power head will be used to blow off any dead flatworm that attach to rock looking like a thin filament, much like a spider's thread. I'll also be adding 2 to 3 inches of new sand for a deep sand bed and re-aquascape my rock work, scrape coralline algae on the side glass and any other maintenance I will need to do while I've got towels all around the floor and the motivation already in process. My corals and fish will be fine in a temporary housing while my intentions to completely remove any signs of flatworm and do a maintenance after all these years undisturbed.
Overkill, maybe, but that's the way I work and I do have my work cut out for me. Too much has been put into tank and I'd still give it my 100% to keep it going where I still have the ability to do so.

 

[pearlmaj]

not sure if you're interested.....but i have a brand new bottle of FWE that I bought because of a suspected FW outbreak. the FW I have are not the parasitic kind, therefore I left them be......located in Waltham if you needed to snag it....i think i paid $20 for it from marinedepot.....just incase you didnt want to concoct your own FW cocktail........PM me if you need it.....

 

[maurod]

Leroy,
Are these Acro Eating flatworms or regular brown/red /clear flatworms?

Flatworm exit will not kill acro eating flatworms.
M

 

[ReeferMedic]

Leroy,
Are these Acro Eating flatworms or regular brown/red /clear flatworms?

Flatworm exit will not kill acro eating flatworms.
M

+1, although it doesn't sound like acro fw.


Leroy, are you planning on treating the display tank with levamisole? I haven't done any reading lately on levamisole, but iirc, it will kill everything, good and bad, in your display. Also, not sure if it would absorb into your rocks and leach back into the water over any period of time.

 

[Leroy]

Leroy,
Are these Acro Eating flatworms or regular brown/red /clear flatworms?

Flatworm exit will not kill acro eating flatworms.
M

There the regular brown flatworms and the only coral seriously affected are the mushrooms showing white spots on the shrooms.

+1, although it doesn't sound like acro fw.


Leroy, are you planning on treating the display tank with levamisole? I haven't done any reading lately on levamisole, but iirc, it will kill everything, good and bad, in your display. Also, not sure if it would absorb into your rocks and leach back into the water over any period of time.

Thanks Don for the information which'll give me something to keep in mind. The fact of it leaching into the rock is not a comforting idea I want to have linger within the tank. It turns out that Tractor Supply does not have levamisole and would take 10 days for them to get it in. I didn't score any FWE although a member has offered a box of the treatment. I did the next best thing and bought 2 Melanurus Wrasse's to do the job and will be keeping an eye on my inverts. They've been know to be invert unsafe. I'll still be removing corals for an Iodine dip and fresh water dip to get some control.

 

[ReeferMedic]

There the regular brown flatworms and the only coral seriously affected are the mushrooms showing white spots on the shrooms.

Thanks Don for the information which'll give me something to keep in mind. The fact of it leaching into the rock is not a comforting idea I want to have linger within the tank. It turns out that Tractor Supply does not have levamisole and would take 10 days for them to get it in. I didn't score any FWE although a member has offered a box of the treatment. I did the next best thing and bought 2 Melanurus Wrasse's to do the job and will be keeping an eye on my inverts. They've been know to be invert unsafe. I'll still be removing corals for an Iodine dip and fresh water dip to get some control.

The wrasse should knock them back pretty good. FWIW, if they aren't at plague proportions, I wouldn't go nuts stressing everything out. Let the wrasse work for a week or so and see where you're at. When they get big, they will take out your shrimp and the occasional hermit or snail. Wrasse are one of my favorites, so I learned to live without shrimp and consider my cuc replaceable.

 

[Psychographic]

+1, although it doesn't sound like acro fw.


Leroy, are you planning on treating the display tank with levamisole? I haven't done any reading lately on levamisole, but iirc, it will kill everything, good and bad, in your display. Also, not sure if it would absorb into your rocks and leach back into the water over any period of time.

This is totally false. I have used it to kill off RP after FWE failed miserably. It will stress some of your snails and stars ( so did FWE), but other than that I found it more effective and much cheaper.

I don't know why, but finding LH is becoming harder lately.

 

[ReeferMedic]

This is totally false. I have used it to kill off RP after FWE failed miserably. It will stress some of your snails and stars ( so did FWE), but other than that I found it more effective and much cheaper.

I don't know why, but finding LH is becoming harder lately.

What is "totally" false? Are you saying that Levamisole doesn't stress your corals? Many people here have had acros among other types of coral turn brown and never color back up and also have had more than a frag or 2 die during treatment. Like I said in a previous post, I haven't read up on this for quite some time. If I dosed my tank the same dose that was recommended at the last time I used it, it would surely stress everything out in my system. When ever I've greated a frag with lev, it kills everything on that frag including pods, mini stars, etc. I have quite a bit of experience with this stuff(granted it has ben a while since I used it), so don't be so quick to dismiss what my post.

I've since switched to iodine as have a lot of other members because it is far less harmful to inverts on the short term.

 

[Dave McReeferson]

What is "totally" false? Are you saying that Levamisole doesn't stress your corals? Many people here have had acros among other types of coral turn brown and never color back up and also have had more than a frag or 2 die during treatment. Like I said in a previous post, I haven't read up on this for quite some time. If I dosed my tank the same dose that was recommended at the last time I used it, it would surely stress everything out in my system. When ever I've greated a frag with lev, it kills everything on that frag including pods, mini stars, etc. I have quite a bit of experience with this stuff(granted it has ben a while since I used it), so don't be so quick to dismiss what my post.

I've since switched to iodine as have a lot of other members because it is far less harmful to inverts on the short term.

Agreed. Levamisole is a pretty harsh treatment, and should not be administered "in tank". I know there are still a couple of hold outs who still stand by Levamisole, but IMO, it is an unnecessary and outdated treatment, betadine is the way to go for incoming treatment (not for "in tank" treatments however).

 

[ReeferMedic]

I'm happy to say I haven't had a single loss with iodine.

 

[Psychographic]

The statement that it will kill everything in the tank is false. You said you had some corals brown out and a couple died, thats not everything. I and many others have treated with LH and not had any problems. None of the treatments ever stessed a coral in my tank.

Is it possible when you treated a single coral ( I'm assuming a dip?) that you OD'ed? My pods were not effected whatsoever from the use of it. I did see snails and Micro stars stress for a short while, but FWE did the same thing.

 

[ReeferMedic]

The statement that it will kill everything in the tank is false. You said you had some corals brown out and a couple died, thats not everything. I and many others have treated with LH and not had any problems. None of the treatments ever stessed a coral in my tank.

Is it possible when you treated a single coral ( I'm assuming a dip?) that you OD'ed? My pods were not effected whatsoever from the use of it. I did see snails and Micro stars stress for a short while, but FWE did the same thing.

Everything meaning pods, starfish, etc, not corals. I should have been more specific. I've overdosed FWE by 10 times the dosage or more on more than one occasion with no stress at all to any corals in my system. When I've treated with lev, nothing but the coral made it out of the dipping container alive except for the coral I was treating. Some times, even the coral didn't make it. You are the first person I've ever heard of that treated the whole system. Why not try explaining what you did instead of bursting in saying "that statement is totally false"? If you've been around for any length of time in this hobby, you would know that what works for one might not work for the other. I'm basing what I said on my personal experience and quite a few others in the club.

 

[Shenlung]

damn....there were two of those little bastards on the clam I got from you...gonna have to see if I can't siphon the little hitchhikers quick quick, but it might be too late....wish me luck, I'm going in...


Edit : HA! Got them both! ...stil bookmarking this thread for a "just-in-case" Hope you get them all cleared out leroy, your tank was too beautiful to lose anything to these pests.

 

[Leroy]

I appreciate any information that will help and guide me as well as others that may go through this experience, which I hope anyone reading does not have to go through any infection or pests in their tanks. Or in the future searches that any information here can help others later. Understanding the consequences about Levamisole and the recommendations of Flatworm Exit not only in this forum but in others as well. The use of one or the other can result in either harsh treatment to the other in not satisfied results. Since I am not able to get Levamisole and do have a chance to get Flatworm Exit then my plans would be safe than sorry. My tank is too well established to chance the loss of small life forms that are an importance to my tank. I will still conduct a full tank maintenance to the whole tank as mentioned above and treat both tank and Rubbermaid containers holding corals and a quick freshwater dip, exception of SPS. I need to remove certain aggressive fish and take down an over populated live rock accumulation to make for better use of tank space. Let this be a lesson to me as I learned the hard way by one word "QUARANTINE". Though I do dip all new corals and take all precautions it was eventually going to come to this day. Lesson learned. I thought this hobby was supposed to relive stress not cause it, so we all like a challenge at this cost.

I know Don, ReeferMedic and Dave are very seasoned veterans in the hobby and their experience in this matter is solid advice. The help received from Psychographic is also appreciated and understand his view in the use of Levamisole has had positive results for him. I need to act quick and will continue to update on the progress possibly start another thread with pictures of the steps taken to remove the dreaded flatworm.

 

[Leroy]

damn....there were two of those little bastards on the clam I got from you...gonna have to see if I can't siphon the little hitchhikers quick quick, but it might be too late....wish me luck, I'm going in...


Edit : HA! Got them both! ...stil bookmarking this thread for a "just-in-case" Hope you get them all cleared out leroy, your tank was too beautiful to lose anything to these pests.

My apologies Chris, if I had known at the time I would never had let you walk out the door with any unwanted hitchhikers. It'll take a month to get this taken care of with weekly doses and the 2 wrasses I have to help keep it controlled.

 

[Shenlung]

ooo...wrasses.... I have a couple of them, iirc. I only had the two from what I could see, no harm, no foul. If it becomes an issue, I'll look at it the way I should look at it "this tank has a problem.....let's get a bigger one!"

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

FWs

The non-acropora eating flatworms commonly known as planaria are by no means in the same category as AEFWs. Planaria are more of a PITA more than anything else. I would not, under any circumstances, treat the tank with LH. This drug is extremely potent and I know from first hand experience that it can kill acros. For this reason, I too have switched to iodine based treatments for every new coral I put into my system followed by a long quarantine period.

Leroy, I would not even use FWE if the infestation is not bad. I had planaria a while back and they are more than a nuisance than a serious problem. FWIW, the planaria hate high flow so if you can pump up the water motion in your tank it may help get them off of the rocks. When I did this, it blew them off the rocks and into my refugium where they slowly abated and finally disappeared.

 

[Psychographic]

Everything meaning pods, starfish, etc, not corals. I should have been more specific. I've overdosed FWE by 10 times the dosage or more on more than one occasion with no stress at all to any corals in my system. When I've treated with lev, nothing but the coral made it out of the dipping container alive except for the coral I was treating. Some times, even the coral didn't make it. You are the first person I've ever heard of that treated the whole system. Why not try explaining what you did instead of bursting in saying "that statement is totally false"? If you've been around for any length of time in this hobby, you would know that what works for one might not work for the other. I'm basing what I said on my personal experience and quite a few others in the club.

After reading that, It did sound a bit harsh, I honestly didd'nt mean for it to come off that way. Sorry about that. I also did'nt understand your "everything" comment. I thought you meant, fish, coral , inverts and EVERTHING.

When I had my RP problem, I did everything I could to avoid chemicalc or meds, such as Psychadelic Manderin, Dragon Faced Pipefish Scarlet Pinstripe Wrasse and Blue Velvet Nudis, I did'nt want to deal with a 6 Line Wrasse as they are a PITA and a PITA to get out of the tank. As my tank is a 30g along with a DIY 20g sump any of the larger Wrasses are out of the question. of these, the most effective was the BVN.

Anyway, it was apparent I was going to learn to live with these or go the chemical route. I got a bottle of FWE and did three treatments on my tank.I figure my total water volume at about 40g.

Two weeks prior to treatment, I started syphoning out as many as I could find twice a day. Did I mention I had tons of them? By the end of the two weeks, I had put a huge dent in the population just from syphoning.

Time to dose, I made up 15g of fresh water and built a temp carbon reactor out of a 1/2g juice container, I also emptied out any reactors and turned thee air off on my skimmer. I OD'ed the FWE by 2 on the first dose, waited and watched for about 2 hours, syphoning as many dead FW's as i could. When it was apparent no more where dieing, I did my water change, added the carbon and turned the air back on for the skimmer.

The next day the Planeria were all over the front glass again. I Od'ed the FWE by using 1/2 of the remaing amount in the bottle again no carbon and no air to the skimmer. I few FW's died, but most seemed unnafected. 2 days later I added the remaining amount in the bottle. And still had FW's. So I dosed what was to be enough to treat 300g's on a 40g tank 3 times, which is almost 3 times what should have been needed.

I then read about the Levamisole on RC, tracked it down, asked a few questions to be sure of the dosage and dosed the tank using the same prcautions as with the FWE. The next day there were nosigns of the Red Planeria anywhere. I redosed again after 1 week, there was not a sign of a FW anywhere.

As I now had a Manderin and DFP's, i was extremely worried about my pod popultion, but the amount in my fuge had actuall seemed larger without the FW's. I don't know if there is any relation between the absence of the FW and the boom in pods, but I was relieved to see tham all over the place.

Having taken some rock from my reef and adding it to my SH tank, I decided to dose that tank also, agin no deaths of anything but the Planeria.

As i said, in both the FWE and LH treatments, some snails and micro stars were stressed, but no deaths that I could see.

I will say, that in the past year, I've had to redose the tank twice, not because of any in the DT, but because I had some pop up in the fuge, a few, but not many. I'm assuming this is becaused I have no predarors whatsoever in the fuge. Each time, I just shut off the carbon, dosed and turned the carbon back on after about an hour with no WC. I don't know how FW's reproduce, but I'm guessing there are eggs somewhere that are not being effected. Possibly a once a week doasge for 4-5 weeks migh take care of them permanantly, I'm not sure.

The mix of LH I used was 1/2 TSP LH to 240 ML of water, then dose at 1-1.5 mL per gallon.

I went with 1.6 ML per gallon.

I have read that OD'ing with LH can be a problem, maybe that was what happened in your case with your dip. I tried to use it as a dip once and killed a few Yuma's. I attribute this to an OD as it is very hard to dose such a small volume of water accurately. I had the same Yuma's in the tank when I dosed it and they showed no signs of stress when dosed in the proper amount in the tank.

In the end, I honestly don't feel this is a harshe method to eliminating FW's.

 

[Psychographic]

Leroy,

It would be a great benefit for you to start syphoningg the FW's out for at least a few days to get the population down before dosing. My reply above was a bit long winded and I don't want you to miss this step.

It is important you realize just how toxic a dead FW can be. The less you have dieing in the tank the better off you are.

Now that I think about it, in my subsequent doses of LH where i was only trying to kill a small population of them, neither my snails or starfish were affected in the slightest bit. Maybe it was'nt the LH that stressed them during the first dosage, but rather the FW toxins.

 

[Leroy]

I absolutely have no problem with details involved in taking care of the issue or any other explanation relating to the hobby. In fact I'd encourage it and never consider it "long winded". I wish there were more detailed information as to how a person proceeded with the work they did even if there were a few mistakes made, it's ok, we all make them to the success in the process. It's always a learning curve in the hobby and we all have our own ways that we care and fix what we need to do that gains us the experience. I will take all advice given and apply it to what I need to deal with. Most important factor dealing with the flatworm is the toxin released when killed and the effect upon the tank. These particular ones do inhibit the growth of corals and are not pleasant to see in the tank, so at this stage they are pests, but should not be left untreated. I'm in my first stages of preparing to tackle the job with siphoning, pre made salt water, fresh water dips, Flatworn Exit since LH is not available, charcoal and a list of other work needed in my tank while I'm at it. It's all going to work out better in the end which has now motivated me to setting up a quarantine tank as well.