HLLE Identification???

[itz216]

My Scopas has something surrounding both eyes. At first I thought it might be a parasite since it appears more like dark areas than the photo shows. Now I'm thinking HLLE. Anybody diagnose this ...?

Note: This fish experienced recent ( 4 weeks ago) tank upgrade and associated stress. Tank is 72G with 85-95 lbs of established LR and new DSB - params are: nitrate <20, nitrite 0, 79F, 1.024 salinity. 2 weeks ago I added carbon in a too-high flow area of sump and got some carbon dust throughout display and sump ( I've read that carbon and HLLE may be associated ...and maybe not). I haven't added any new fish to the "mix" in 6 months or more. I feed a mix of Nori/seaweed, Omega 1 pellets w/garlic and Cyclopeez.

 

[Sherri]

Looks like HLLE to me. I just found that my tennenti has the same thing -- small pits underneath the eyes --had to use a magnifying lens to see them. I just read about the carbon thing too -- never heard that before. I added a ground probe and am soaking nori and frozen food in Vita-chem and selecon. They need a variety of food -- may want to get some good mysis to feed too. Water quality is also blamed. The bottom line is that they don't know what causes it so if you improve everything it goes away. My water quality is not the problem. I am also going to start giving him stuff like broccoli, kale, romaine -- vitamins A, D, C, B, and E ... not much left I don't think!

 

[SaltCreep]

Anybody know if tangs exhibit HLLE in the wild?

 

[itz216]

Hlle

My research says it is not present in wild fish. Less common in reef tanks. Still, nobody has determined if it is dietary, water quality/stress, carbon, or stray electricity.

 

[Arthur1]

Ever since I was a kid HLLE aka hole in the head in freshwater with Hexamita involved has had plenty of speculations as to why fish get it. People would say not to use carbon with discus. Electricity is another speculation and of course one I would look closely at, dietary. Some marine fish in reef aquaria that developed HLLE have been placed into other marine tanks (reef) and have supposedly been "cured". Just feed a varied diet and don't put tangs into "sterile" aquariums

 

[itz216]

HLLE causes

I hadn't ever had a fish suffer HLLE before, so I'm new to info about it. That said, here are the things that could be contributors to my tang getting HLLE:
1) I've been feeding more pellets and less NORI/seaweed for the last few months.
2) I believe I have stray electric in my new set up ( 1 month old). I've felt in : (
3) the tang came from a tank with high phosphate (under gravel filter failure).

The carbon dust issue was only days before I noticed indications of HLLE - so it probably isn't the root cause here.

I'll leave it to science to determine the cause - but I'm adding a grounded probe ( if for no other reason than it will increase safety) and I've up'd the NORI offerings w/ Selcon.

 

[Arthur1]

With the probe make sure you have a gfci outlet involved also. Personally.. I'd keep using carbon and make sure to feed a varied diet and make sure you stay on top of your water quality.

 

[coralcor]

well that is a beautiful fish.

 

[Aquaman_68]

Anybody know if tangs exhibit HLLE in the wild?

My research says it is not present in wild fish. Less common in reef tanks. Still, nobody has determined if it is dietary, water quality/stress, carbon, or stray electricity.

Hole in the head & latteral line errosion is more common in certain tang fish...Not usually in a reef though....From reading & research over the years It was determined from what I read that it was a deficiency in macro algae...Do you have a fuge in that tank? Carbon removes free floating algae btw.....Might be an issue with new tank syndrome or over purifying in sherri's case.. No one with a reef tank should be experiencing HLLE... unless they are overdosing with ozone or carbon...

 

[Arthur1]

aqua, problem is if hexamita is involved, as it is with some freshwater fish I fear its more than that. Kind of like a study that I read about, fish with lymphocytes healed faster in aquariums that contained anemones from the pacific.... makes you wonder. In the freshwater hobby oscars (Astronotus ocellatus) very often have Hole in the head. A lot of food is expelled through their gills when feeding and the aquariums often have a high bio load as well as obvious signs of poor water quality. We know so much... but really so little.

 

[Sherri]

I wish my tank was over purified!!!! I grow hair algae and cyano which I have decided to blame on new tank syndrome plus using IO salt mixed with TM -- I have stopped using IO. My RDSB has not really kicked in yet. My cheato isn't growing that fast but it is getting there. I only do 1 ounce of carbon per 50 gallons changed weekly. My GFO is about 6 ounces changed every 4 to 6 weeks. (remember this is about 365 g total volume) I do weekly water changes of 40g. My 65g tank is only a few months old but a piece of marco rock in it is growing caluerpa! I am not sure what this tang's issue is but it could be the move and change of diet. He's getting roughly the same thing but still has some white pits on his face. They are not getting any worse -- I did the ground probe downstairs and I am soaking all food in Vita-chem, selcon and garlic. A bit repetitive I know but ... And have also added a second feeding at the end of the day of New Spectrum pellets. I am also planning on growing some macroalgae in the 65g tank -- get the tang food one -- can't remember the name off of the top of my head -- anyway -- harvest and feed to him. Nothing like the live real thing for these grazers. As soon as the caluerpa gets a bit bigger it is getting pulled out of the rock and fed to him. He is a big active fish though and I am wondering if he needs a bigger tank.

 

[wrassefan]

over the years, I've cured a few fish with HLLE by feeding regularly a variety of foods soaked in either Vitachem or Selcon as others above have mentioned. My current purple tang had it when I bought it. Completely gone within the year...that was 5 or so years ago. As long as the fish is healthy looking and eating well...it has a good chance of going away from just diet. Prob a good idea with the grounding probe. Stray current is not a good thing...good luck!

 

[itz216]

macro

I had been running carbon in a bio-wheel filter ( minus the bio wheels), but ditched it for a media bag in a high flow area of my new sump/refugium. The carbon tumbled and over about 24 hrs it put a dusting on the sand bed and rocks. I removed it and the skimmer has since pulled most or all of it. I am not currently running carbon - but plan to again in the future ( just trying to reduce the number of potential causes).

I have a 30 gal capacity sump that has a "brick" of chaeto ( 6" thick x 10" x12"). With 24 hr lighting I harvest about a loose quart every other week.

I'm beginning to think that it was/is nutrition in origin. I inherited a Blue Niger Trigger - and began feeding more pellets and silversides and less nori. That started about 3-4 months ago. Now I'm back to nori twice a day - fewer pellets.

Thoughts on how long before I see improvements and know I'm on the right track? Thx.

 

[itz216]

HLLE repair

The Scopas is recovering. I think it came down to diet ( insert shame). I've gone back to a Nori clip every day. HLLE seems to be retreating. The fish is now wider than it is tall : )