LFS vs. Online discussion split from FosterSmith Poll

[Matt L.]

Once again, I'll make the plea to please try and patronize your local fish stores first before turning to the online vendors.

The local fish stores are what make this hobby possible. It is a difficult business to run, and if we do not support them, the online vendors will be our only source of livestock and dry goods.

Matt

 

[Rob]

thats another whole discussion.....

 

[Dave]

I priced the black and white perc at a LFS they wanted $99.00 each for a pair. I can not afford to buy them at that $$$. That makes GB a great way to put quality live stock in my tank at an affordable price. If I can purchase the same thing at a reasonable markup locally that is my first choice.

 

[Matt L.]

(Aside: there are many different classifications of the ocellaris/percula clowns. $100 for a pair seems way too high to me, unless they were of the subjective onyx, picasso, snowflake, naked, etc. color variants. I would definitely try the other BRS sponsors. You might be able to get a black and white pair for as little as $40.)

But back to the main discussion, and I address this to all:

This hobby is not something for the faint of wallet. That doesn't mean you have to be rich. I'm quite the opposite.

And I'm not saying I haven't bought livestock from online vendors. I certainly have in the past. And that decision has always come back to haunt me. And I can't tell how many horror stories I've read on the borads here over the years where somebody introduced something into their tank and now everything's dead.

I came to the conclusion that if one is cutting corners on livestock, then one might need to rethink their participation in this hobby.

Livestock is expensive regardless of where you get it. I know one can save large sums of money by purchasing from large online retailers, but I fail to see the rationale for buying a fish where you cannot see:

• Its temperment
• Whether it is eating
• If it has a disease
• If it has an injury
• If it is of the colour variant you want

That just seems like poor reefkeeping to me. Most importantly, when buying from a "blind" source, you may not have any recourse should the specimen at the very best not turn out to be exactly right for you, and at the worst, introduce a disease into your tank.

I think some of these online vendors are more than reputable companies, but what do they care if they lose your business? There's a million others buying from them. On the other hand, a local source has a serious incentive to sell a reputable product. Worse than losing your business and possibly your participation in the hobby, word of mouth gets around here pretty fast. And there are plenty of local sources selling sick fish who care not about your tank. That's well known. So this isn't a black and white issue.

In sum, I know that money is tight, especially with rising electrical costs. A MJ1200 from Dr. Fosters and Smith is the same as a MJ1200 from a LFS. But is a Flame Angel the same between the two?

Matt

 

[Yaktop]

the main discussion is about an order from Liveaquaria.

 

[dz6t]

thats another whole discussion.....

That is right, please start another thread to express personal opinions.

 

[NateHanson]

I split this discussion into it's own thread.

 

[B.rian]

i buy mostly from reputable online vendors because they have excellent customer support and stay alive guarentees. not many LFS will offer stay alive guarentees. LFS have great customer assistance, but i can't afford to pay $70 for a fish that might die, and i would be out the cash.

 

[Yaktop]

personally I like to 'see' the fish I am buying and know its been quarantined etc before I buy it. almost no worry about stress at that point. Corals on the other hand I am not as concerned. as far as fish and on line vendors they need the guarantee. ask your local lfs if they quarantine, mine does and refuses to sell their fish until the time is over.

 

[B.rian]

i always QT all fish whether from LFS or an online vendor. i don't rely on any company to QT fish. although, i know that marinedepot QTs any fish that shows ill signs. i had an order pending from them, when they contacted me and said one of the fish may have a problem. they QTd the entire batch of fish that came in with it.

 

[maxfischer]

i buy mostly from reputable online vendors because they have excellent customer support and stay alive guarentees. not many LFS will offer stay alive guarentees. LFS have great customer assistance, but i can't afford to pay $70 for a fish that might die, and i would be out the cash.

I know my LFS (5 mins away) will take back any fish that might have died in the first few weeks , knowing that my water and equipment can handle the fish/corals. A person that is in with a problem every few days might get a diffrent responce.

 

[Yaktop]

i always QT all fish whether from LFS or an online vendor. i don't rely on any company to QT fish. although, i know that marinedepot QTs any fish that shows ill signs. i had an order pending from them, when they contacted me and said one of the fish may have a problem. they QTd the entire batch of fish that came in with it.

oh yes, quarantine them also but at some LFS's you can put fish on hold, particularly if they are not ready for sale. and you can see them after a few days and see if they are ok, eating etc.. Sorta like blind dates sometimed she sounded better than she looks.

 

[fanaglethebagle]

I cant afford a qt, so I go to lfs's (And still get sundial snails grawr )

 

[dz6t]

The bottom line is: People should support whatever vendor (online or local) that can provide the best service (that include pricing, on time delivery, customer service etc).

People have the right to choose, period. If you don't aggress with my choice of where to spend my money, keep it to yourself and spend your money what every you want.

If being a BRS member means we are obligated to buy from local sponsor first, please make that clear. That will totally change the meaning of BRS. We are not here to generate a big buying pool for local stores. It should be the other way around. The stores should be here to support us and make money at the same time. We are a non porfit organization and BRS should not be a outlet or "front" of local sponsors.

We should not support any store just because it is local. On the other hand, look at the Vedor Experience forum, there are filled with complains about local stores.

 

[dz6t]

(Aside: there are many different classifications of the ocellaris/percula clowns. $100 for a pair seems way too high to me, unless they were of the subjective onyx, picasso, snowflake, naked, etc. color variants. I would definitely try the other BRS sponsors. You might be able to get a black and white pair for as little as $40.)

But back to the main discussion, and I address this to all:

This hobby is not something for the faint of wallet. That doesn't mean you have to be rich. I'm quite the opposite.

And I'm not saying I haven't bought livestock from online vendors. I certainly have in the past. And that decision has always come back to haunt me. And I can't tell how many horror stories I've read on the borads here over the years where somebody introduced something into their tank and now everything's dead.

I came to the conclusion that if one is cutting corners on livestock, then one might need to rethink their participation in this hobby.

Livestock is expensive regardless of where you get it. I know one can save large sums of money by purchasing from large online retailers, but I fail to see the rationale for buying a fish where you cannot see:

• Its temperment
• Whether it is eating
• If it has a disease
• If it has an injury
• If it is of the colour variant you want

That just seems like poor reefkeeping to me. Most importantly, when buying from a "blind" source, you may not have any recourse should the specimen at the very best not turn out to be exactly right for you, and at the worst, introduce a disease into your tank.

I think some of these online vendors are more than reputable companies, but what do they care if they lose your business? There's a million others buying from them. On the other hand, a local source has a serious incentive to sell a reputable product. Worse than losing your business and possibly your participation in the hobby, word of mouth gets around here pretty fast. And there are plenty of local sources selling sick fish who care not about your tank. That's well known. So this isn't a black and white issue.

In sum, I know that money is tight, especially with rising electrical costs. A MJ1200 from Dr. Fosters and Smith is the same as a MJ1200 from a LFS. But is a Flame Angel the same between the two?

Matt

Matt, it seems you never buy from Liveaquaria. Anyone who bought from Liveaquaria DO NOT have the probelms you are worry about. That is the reason we keep going back to Liveaquaria. The bottom line is: Their livestock qulity, selection, and service can not be match by ANY local store so far.

 

[Dave]

(Aside: there are many different classifications of the ocellaris/percula clowns. $100 for a pair seems way too high to me, unless they were of the subjective onyx, picasso, snowflake, naked, etc. color variants. I would definitely try the other BRS sponsors. You might be able to get a black and white pair for as little as $40.)

Matt

I have looked around only found the one pair I mentioned

But back to the main discussion, and I address this to all:

This hobby is not something for the faint of wallet. That doesn't mean you have to be rich. I'm quite the opposite.

Matt

I agree you don't have to spend tons of money to enjoy this hobby.

.

I came to the conclusion that if one is cutting corners on livestock, then one might need to rethink their participation in this hobby.

Matt

Cutting corners and getting the mosts value for the money are two very different things.

Livestock is expensive regardless of where you get it. I know one can save large sums of money by purchasing from large online retailers, but I fail to see the rationale for buying a fish where you cannot see:

• Its temperment
• Whether it is eating
• If it has a disease
• If it has an injury
• If it is of the colour variant you want

Matt

I have been very happy with the few animals that I have purchases on-line. The live stock is backed by a guarantee which is more than most LFS provide.

 

[Dave]

That just seems like poor reefkeeping to me. Matt

What? The LFS is having the live stock shipped from the same wholesalers. Reef-keeping would be acclimation, QT, treatment if required, properly sizing the tank for the inhabitants. How is that related to where the animal is purchased?

I think some of these online vendors are more than reputable companies, but what do they care if they lose your business? Matt

Yes I do think the good vendors care about my business. That is how they stay in business

There's a million others buying from them. On the other hand, a local source has a serious incentive to sell a reputable product. Worse than losing your business and possibly your participation in the hobby, word of mouth gets around here pretty fast. Matt

Yup, and so does word on forums like this one. The last thing a vendor wants is a lousy review sitting on a web site. Especially a review that is on the first page of a google search.

 

[mloebl]

Matt, it seems you never buy from Liveaquaria. Anyone who bought from Liveaquaria DO NOT have the probelms you are worry about. That is the reason we keep going back to Liveaquaria. The bottom line is: Their livestock qulity, selection, and service can not be match by ANY local store so far.

I have to agree with Dong. I've ordered several times from Liveaquaria and had *excellant* customer service and livestock quality. They always picked up within one or two rings, always apologized for any loss and refunded my money instantly with no questions asked. I've bought stuff from LFS, and had fairly equal success with the survivability of the livestock. However the difference is many (not saying all) of the LFS tend to be a bit more difficult if it dies (ie blaming you first, requiring water samples, driving back with the dead body, etc.) Alot of that I think comes from simple overhead and buying power involved. LA can buy their livestock in bulk and probably negotiate better deals. Many of the smaller LFS probably don't have the capicity to do that so need to be stricter with their livestock garuntees.

.... also I bet I know where those $99 percs are that Rosey is talking about, LOL. I've seen them there too and haven't bought them for the same reason. They were $99 three years ago as well. Online I have noticed they did start out along the same pricepoint, but have dropped down to reasonable levels.

-Mike

 

[Greg Hiller]

>If being a BRS member means we are obligated to buy from local sponsor first, please make that clear.<

Dong, it does not.

However, many of us when possible like to support the local stores so that when that bulkhead starts leaking at 3 PM on Saturday afternoon, there is somewhere we can turn. We also just like the idea of supporting local businesses.

I've ordered from numerous on-line fish and coral suppliers, and have purchased fish and corals from many of our sponsors as well. IMO, there is a place for both. I've had plenty of fish die from internet shops, including the one you are fond of. I've had the wrong fish sent as well. Sometimes you can save a buck this way, sometimes not. For rare and hard to find fish, sometimes it is more practical to order on-line.

 

[dz6t]

I like Liveaquaria's 14 days "Stay alive" policy. If fish die within two weeks, I can get my money back and no blaming game will be played. They did ship wrong things but they give you full credit.