LFS vs. Online discussion split from FosterSmith Poll

[dz6t]

Also, one other thing someone told me was that LFSs are important for bringing new people into the hobby.

Matt

This is so funny if you include Petco as LFS. I was told by a employee of Petco where to find this club. I found the truth is just the other way around. If Petco start to carry bulb heads and more reef supply...

 

[Matt L.]

This is so funny if you include Petco as LFS. I was told by a employee of Petco where to find this club. I found the truth is just the other way around. If Petco start to carry bulb heads and more reef supply...

Dong, what are you saying?

Matt

 

[Matt L.]

I think you are missing the point.
EVERY retail outlet for this hobby is a LFS somewhere.
Some are just more successful than others.

So the point is that our LFSs are not as good business men and women as the online retailers?

Matt

 

[merk1_99]

Just speaking from a business perspective. LA does have a large purchase power when obtaining dry goods and livestock. Some of the local LFS's should look at pooling their resources and group buying as you will. How to do you think Walmart drives the market and sets prices as low as they do. Its their buying power which is the same as LA. They aren't getting price breaks at qty but are rather setting the market for what they will pay. I know one smaller store in my area who does that with a larger store(they still mark them right up though). Using the group purchase power will not give stores LA prices but it might lower them enough to get people buying from them. Because group buys are a PIA esp* if you need to manage it, and freight on a single fish or two fish can significantly raise the price of the fish. I will never argue that a local group of 3-4 LFS's will ever buy enough to get to LA's 14.99 YT, but buying as a group may allow prices to be lowered. 10%-15% lower or whatever the percentage may be might low enough to entice people away from online LFS's. Time for LFS's to become creative and think outside the box, and work on revamping business plans.
I think another problem with LFS's is poor customer service. I'll leave that for another day....

 

[dz6t]

I don't believe LFS are important to bring people in the hobby or at least they don't want their customers become one of the "Boston Cheaper". They do no t want more educated or more web savy customers. For example, people who know they can buy a filter for $20 online will not buy the same thing for $49.99 in the LFS. LFS can't sell $50 Xenia to BRS members.

 

[Matt L.]

This is so funny if you include Petco as LFS. I was told by a employee of Petco where to find this club. I found the truth is just the other way around. If Petco start to carry bulb heads and more reef supply...

Dong,

I just noticed that you are the membership chair for the BRS. I would like to use your position to draw an analogy to buying online versus buying from a LFS.

Hypothetically, let's say I stop paying my BRS membership dues*. Tell me: what benefit do I get from paying my dues? Everything I need to do I can do online. And if you can't pay for the BRS message board, I'll just go back to RC. I'm not saying this is something I would do, but I see a great similarity here.

Matt

(* Actually, I might need to pay for this year! I just realized that my year's membership may be up. I most certainly will pay ASAP if so, because I realize that I need to support the BRS)

 

[Liam]

So the point is that our LFSs are not as good business men and women as the online retailers?

Matt

exactly

 

[dz6t]

So the point is that our LFSs are not as good business men and women as the online retailers?

Matt

The point is that there are a hugh market for lFS that online store can't put their hands on, for example aquarium service. LFS should not compete with online store like selling B&W clown fish to BRS members. So, Matt, I am not sure if LFS appreciate what your doing for them. You just provoke a lot of negative feeling against LFS.

 

[Matt L.]

I don't believe LFS are important to bring people in the hobby or at least they don't want their customers become one of the "Boston Cheaper". They do no t want more educated or more web savy customers. For example, people who know they can buy a filter for $20 online will not buy the same thing for $49.99 in the LFS. LFS can't sell $50 Xenia to BRS members.

Dong,

I've known for a long time that you have an axe to grind with some of the LFSs, but I also think you've been going to the wrong LFSs. More than double online retail and Xenia that isn't pretty much free are pretty much signs you need to find a new LFS. The point I'm trying to make is that if you don't support the reputable LFSs, there won't be any, and that makes this hobby a lot harder.

Matt

P.S.: Who are the Boston Cheaper?

 

[Matt L.]

...LFS should not compete with online store like selling B&W clown fish to BRS members...

Dong, some of us would still like to see our fish before we buy them. We consider this essential to good reefkeeping.

...So, Matt, I am not sure if LFS appreciate what your doing for them....

I don't care if they do.

...You just provoke a lot of negative feeling against LFS.

How so?

Matt

 

[dz6t]

Dong,

I just noticed that you are the membership chair for the BRS. I would like to use your position to draw an analogy to buying online versus buying from a LFS.

Hypothetically, let's say I stop paying my BRS membership dues*. Tell me: what benefit do I get from paying my dues? Everything I need to do I can do online. And if you can't pay for the BRS message board, I'll just go back to RC. I'm not saying this is something I would do, but I see a great similarity here.

Matt

(* Actually, I might need to pay for this year! I just realized that my year's membership may be up. I most certainly will pay ASAP if so, because I realize that I need to support the BRS)

Matt, pay your membership fee will make BRS less depend on the LFS. BRS is a non-profit organization and it is an online community. Do you know that buy from Liveaquaria and Dr. Forster and Smith actuall support the club? try www.igive.com

 

[Matt L.]

Matt, pay your membership fee will make BRS less depend on the LFS. BRS is a non-profit organization and it is an online community. Do you know that buy from Liveaquaria and Dr. Forster and Smith actuall support the club? try www.igive.com

Dong,

But I can get this message board for free. And if this one closes down, I can go to RC. Why should I pay my dues? The answer to this question is the same as the reason why I implore people to at least support in part their LFSs,

Matt

 

[dz6t]

Dong, some of us would still like to see our fish before we buy them. We consider this essential to good reefkeeping.
I don't care if they do.
How so?

Matt

So please don't act like PETA and push your preference upon other people.

 

[dz6t]

Dong,

But I can get this message board for free. And if this one closes down, I can go to RC. Why should I pay my dues? The answer to this question is the same as the reason why I implore people to at least support in part their LFSs,

Matt

Support LFS does not equal to support BRS. I think at least you should get that clear. If everyone pay thier dues, this board will not be shut down. You make it sound like it is the LFS keeping this club alive. I am very offended by that.

 

[ScottM]

So the point is that our LFSs are not as good business men and women as the online retailers?

Matt

I don't think it’s a question of how savvy they are. Its 2 entirely separate markets in a single industry, and often 2 separate consumer pools. IMO the BRS forum is a collision of the 2 pools. Most of the time, most local shops don’t concern themselves with the online activity.

And matt correct me if i am off base here, but i think a good point to this thread is the Local fish stores are just that - Local. Good or bad, they are local to us all.

As Members continue to black list (some warranted, some petty issues) their Local shops, asking for "club sponsorship/support" is extremely difficult to justify for the local shop owners. .
Supporting the BRS sponsorship is a 2 way street.

I am not saying that buying online is wrong or bad or unethical in any way.
I even get great deals online that i could NEVER find at my Local shop. I am not saying that supporting the local shop is the “right” thing to do. We all work hard for our $$$.
But we as a club might direct our attention to the larger "online chains" for support-sponsorship rather than looking to the Local FS. Focus on those retailers that continually provide the membership with quality service.

People will frequent those local shops that service them, and do it well.
Others will not.

IMO the region is flooded with too many shops as it is. Those that excel in service will survive and thrive, those that do not, will dwindle out.

If people continue to buy online, and dump on the local shops, it’s only a matter of time until the BRS has NO local shops supporting them….whether they survive or not.

 

[ScottM]

Support LFS does not equal to support BRS. I think at least you should get that clear. If everyone pay thier dues, this board will not be shut down. You make it sound like it is the LFS keeping this club alive. I am very offended by that.

whoa,
does that mean the club might actually reimburse Joefitz for all his server space, forum maint. and time??? or does the club plan to contiune to get that for free.

the LFS certainly doesn't keep this club alive, but also remember that this club does not keep the LFS alive either....

 

[Dave]

For any business to survive and then thrive it has to distinguish itself form it's competition. I can't complete with Dell on hardware pricing so I don't try. I focus my business where I can do a better job than Dell on the IT services side. I would love the fat margins that selling hardware use to offer but those days are gone.
The LFS that will be around in 5 years has to distinguish themselves from the rest of the LFS by offering a good selection, knowledgeable staff, innovation, and reasonable pricing. One of my LFS offers installation and maintenance of fresh/salt aquariums for the home and office. This allows him to sell his service and all the hardware as a package which he can sell at retail pricing.

 

[Behrmon]

I paid for my BRS membership because of the support and knowledge I get here. This is the same reason I will always buy from my LFS or at least a sponsor store. I probably never use my card for a discount - who knows? If I don't support them they may well not be there when I need something right away as Greg mentioned earlier.

My LFS knows me, knows my tank and offer me guidance that I value very much. While I appreciate the money back guarantee that some on-line services offer I would still prefer to pay the few extra bucks and have a much better idea of what I'm getting and if I should be getting it or not.

I have "refused" to sell a banner or sign to 7 or 8 potential customers because I knew that the zoning of the town they were in would not allow what they wanted. 5 of those are now my customers having learned the hard way.

I guess it all boils down to who you LFS is and how much it's worth to you to have them around in the event you need them.

 

[delta]

As in any Debate there are many sides

For some they may not be very close to stores. Which leaves these Not LFS but FS. With this in mind ,gas prices and travel time it is not possible for some to make the hikes to the LFS even if they want to.
Also nobody wants to hike an hour both ways to a LFS only to find they didn't have what they want.

As for Liam's statement well it holds some truth. The online retailers understand today's society and the cycle of world business practices.
Also the more successful ones are very well funded. You cannot beat some of the customer service some these places have. As with a lot of LFS you have one guy manning a phone and an email address at best, sometimes only part time.

On the other hand building a relationship with LFS owner can be rewarding for both parties.
Knowing your going to get to look at the fish pre purchase and have them hold it for you as a safety precaution is great. Face to face info, among an array of personal qualities not available from most of the online retailer.

In the end I value the "plea" made to buy from your LFS.
However I don't believe this can be 100% across the boards for a lot of reasons.

I do pose this question then. If we should only deal with LFSs then perhaps the plea to stop frag swaps and used equiptment sales too? From what I can see the sales occuring in the merchant area of the forum for private sales far surpass the online retailers sales.

 

[ScottM]

...
....If we should only deal with LFSs ...

I think most if not all would be against this type of policy, myself included. Let the club define it's market for purchase online or local.

also,
the husbandry the frag swap provides is invaluable.
the used goods, although insane, is a good way for some to get started who otherwise could not....