Need Help setting up QT tank

[jdeb101]

So for sure I can see visible suger sized white specs on my goby and blenny so I take it they have ick. Im going to set up a quarantine tank tomorrow but have a few questions. FIrst heres the steps Ill be taking:

1) Setup 10 gallon tank with displays water.
2) Add small powerhead and heater, also some PVC for hiding.
3) Add fish.
3) Use copper medication.
4) Leave fish in QT for a month.
5) Give fish a quick dip in bucket of SW before returning to display.

So my questions are:
1) I dont really have a sponge filter to get good bacteria in my QT so how do I keep ammonia from building up in it?
2) Is the month duration long enough to rid ich from the display?
3) Should I add all fish to QT even though I believe only two have ich?
4) Any recommended medications?

 

[randoma]

So my questions are:
>1) I dont really have a sponge filter to get good bacteria in my QT so how do I keep ammonia from building up in it?

I don't know! However if you do frequent water changes it will help with the Ich and keep the ammonia down. However, I'm sure that someone else has a better answer!

>2) Is the month duration long enough to rid ich from the display?

Yes.

>3) Should I add all fish to QT even though I believe only two have ich?

I would..

>4) Any recommended medications?

Hyposalinity/Osmotic Shock rather than copper..

 

[randoma]

There's a very good writeup regarding Ich treatment here:

Marine Ich at Reefkeeping.com

 

[necco]

some more reads for you

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/quarantinetanks.html
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php

 

[jdeb101]

Thanks, the links were helpful. Im still stuck however on what to use for a biological filter. I dont have any sponges or anything from my display I could use. Does that mean I would just have to be doing frequent water changes to the QT tank to keep ammonia levels down?

I think Im going to go the Hyposalinity route.

 

[starrfish]

If you have any extra piece of live rock that you can sacrifice, that would help. But you'll have to throw it out after the QT. You should also get some Amquel or Prime to detoxify the ammonia. Definitely do the hypo instead of copper - copper can be deadly if not administered correctly - it's very difficult to keep at the right level.

 

[jdeb101]

I suppose I could sacrifice a piece of LR but even still would one piece have enough bacteria to support the bioload of all my fish? The piece I would use is probably about 8 lbs and not very pourous.

 

[jdeb101]

Would it be ok to also throw in some LS from my display? I been thinking of replacing some of it anyway.

 

[JohnK]

Anything you move from the display will have some bacteria on it. As far as keeping the QT liveable, import some bacteria and it will grow as needed, just be particularly careful in the beginning.

You might want to pick up one of these, will save a lot of testing and worry;
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~SC4111.html

IMO definately treat all the fish, some are less susceptible than others, but the parisite can ususally survive even if you don't see it on the fish.

Personally, I'd go longer than a month with no fish in the display, different people have different ideas on this, I prefer to play it safe. That said, if your going to use hypo then this point is moot because the treatment will take longer than a month anyway.

IMO/IME....
When you do the treatment, don't rush, treat at hypo for at least 6 wks, bring the SG back up slowly after the 6 wks (another week) and give at least another week after that for observation in the Qt before moving the fish back. Be careful of cross contamination (nets, wet hands, tongs, cleaning tools, anything wet). Check the SG often and be sure to be using a well calibrated refractometer, a swing arm will not cut it. SG can go as low as 1.007, don't risk letting it get high, when I've done the treatment I've kept it at 1.007-1.008.

 

[jdeb101]

Darn I was hoping to avoid having to catch the firefish but I guess Ill have too. I think 6 weeks it is then. Rather get it right the first time and not have to go through this again.

So would this be a good way of avoiding cross contamination?
-Once the fish are ready to be put back in display, net them, dip them in a 3-5 gallon bucket of sw, net and place in display.

I also dont have a refractometer, Im using the glass bobble type.

So this is what Im going to pick up today, is there anything Im missing? Maybe some garlic?
1) Ammonia alert
2) Some stress zyme, or bio-zyme

 

[JayM]

Pick up a refractometer, or your hypo process is going to be shaky at best.

After having used a refractometer, I wouldn't use the bubble type to mix up water change water, never mind something as delicate as a hypo cycle.....

 

[jdeb101]

I really cant afford to be throwing more money into this hobby. It seems like Ive just been spending,and spending and Im not really getting the enjoyment I should be from spending so much on this hobby. Since I started this hobby there hasnt been more than a week where I could just sit back, relax and enjoy the tank.

If anyone has a refractometer that maybe I could borrow I could give you one lovely green mushroom for it!

 

[JayM]

I really cant afford to be throwing more money into this hobby. It seems like Ive just been spending,and spending and Im not really getting the enjoyment I should be from spending so much on this hobby. Since I started this hobby there hasnt been more than a week where I could just sit back, relax and enjoy the tank.

I've never heard ANYONE on this board say such a thing

 

[jdeb101]

lol Well I know theres the normal husbandry involved but Ive been through a handful of dead fish, skimmer issues for months until just recently had to replace it, algae problems, phosphate battle, aggressive fish issues a few times, flooding, installing a sump then removing it a month later, kolarscape sand thats brown, i could go on and on. I know most these things happen to everyone but it seems like everytime things start looking right something goes wrong.

 

[JayM]

lol Well I know theres the normal husbandry involved but Ive been through a handful of dead fish, skimmer issues for months until just recently had to replace it, algae problems, phosphate battle, aggressive fish issues a few times, flooding, installing a sump then removing it a month later, kolarscape sand thats brown, i could go on and on. I know most these things happen to everyone but it seems like everytime things start looking right something goes wrong.

Joe, with the exception of the brown colorscape (unless you count new tank algae), I have had every one of those issues...plus a failed pump, ICH, aiptasia, cyano, electric shock, shorted heaters, toxic shock almost wiping out my tank, power failures, AND almost burning my house down with a coralife timer....and that's off the top of my head.

It gets better.....no really (keep telling myself )

 

[jdeb101]

lol Im sure you have. Just seems no matter how much I try to do things right, it still goes wrong. Well lesson learned, any new fish def get QT first. (Figures the one thing I never did by the books is what got me. grrrr...)

 

[JohnK]

Hey, we've all been there. Try searching for threads with "venting" in the titles, you'll probably get a good laugh.

It does get better with time, eventually you start running out of the normal things to go wrong, and then all that's left is the occasional really strange problem or dumb mistake. My latest problem, a crazy dog.

Hang in there,

Oh, and you can pick up a refractomter for about $50 at the more reasonable priced good LFS's. More than worth it both in the long run and for right now.

 

[jdeb101]

jimmy could you PM me the name of a LFS to get one at for cheap? I guess Ill look at it as, Ive spent craploads already, whats another 50. lol ughh...this hobbys like a drug...addicting, hard on the wallet, and probably not healthy(too much stress) lol

 

[jdeb101]

So I decided to go a different route instead of qt. I know most of you highly recommend doing hypo but a couple things are holding it off. Well basically I was ready to set one up but visited a well reputable LFS and they told me to try feeding some garlic with the food and see if it disapears. He mentioned that as long as the fish is eating and the ich isnt extreme I shouldnt worry, and he strongly believes that every tank has ich, and that some sort of stress factor is causing the outbreak on my two new fish.

The ich has seemed to clear up a little better the past day or two and I will use the garlic tomorrow. I also did about a 10% water change today.The ich is only noticeable on the two new fish so I think it may have been stress of the new transition into my tank. Im still unsure why my lemonpeal died though, he didnt have ich but maybe some other disease Im thinking.

 

[JohnK]

Two schools of thought here;

1- Eradicate Ick,
Hypo, long treatment, QT/treat everything, exct., as we've been discussing.

2- Manage Ick,
Minimize stress, feed garlic, feed well, keep happy, overall make conditions ideal and rely on fish's immunity to fight off infection. Infection may or may not die out this way. IMO/IME the infection will lie dormant and not go away. (you won't see 1-5 cysts imbedded in the gills, but they surely will maintain the infection.)

No offense to anyone at any LFS but,
IMO stores are experientially motivated to be proponents of management strategies over eradication strategies. You can't isolate every fish for 6+ wks in retail, it's just not possible.

Research and decide if you want to go with "managment" or "eradication" strategies on this.