afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
I'll def be bribing you with frags or something to come let me see the light 
opinion on LED retrofit
- Thread starter Bobbofin
- Start date
afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
Well put me on a list... I just spent all day at work reading over 100 pages on retro DIY led's on various sites and still have about 80 more pages of a thread to go
I'm already going to start saving up
I'm already going to start saving up
Cheetos
7 Gallon Cube
Well put me on a list... I just spent all day at work reading over 100 pages on retro DIY led's on various sites and still have about 80 more pages of a thread to go
I'm already going to start saving up
Been reading the Ultimate LED Guide?
afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
No just a DIY thread on RC that turned into a 177 page thread And pretty much all the links posted in the thread
And pretty much all the links posted in the thread 
DoctaQ
Non-member
where in that article does it say mh is king?
aside from using like 50% more power than leds, they still put out comparable par, watt for watt you cant beat leds with mh no matter the depth or size
the solaris is old and the ecolamps is not that big of a contender yet, maxspect would have been a better test.
aside from using like 50% more power than leds, they still put out comparable par, watt for watt you cant beat leds with mh no matter the depth or size
the solaris is old and the ecolamps is not that big of a contender yet, maxspect would have been a better test.
If you look at the spread, I think the MH put out 300-400% more light only using 50% more power. LEDS are great for nanos that can't utilize the spread MH can provide. I'd stay far away from those Chinese Maxspects. It appears they use low quality components and have suspect business practices. They have been banned from both RC and NR because they were using employees posing as hobbyists touting their products and "organising" group buys.
afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
I would also agree MH are not the kings of lights.
"While a lot of other factors that may be involved in making decisions such as power savings, cost, longevity, controllability, cost of ownership etc. these are not the factors considered here."
If you consider all those factors such as having to spend a ton of money on MH bulbs when LEDS can last 3-5 years that alone levels the field and possibly overtakes them...
Also the MH used 306W while the KR92 LED lamp used 110 and the MH had 278@24" and 190@30" while the KR92 LED had 224@24" and 160@30" To me using almost 1/3 of the watts for not that big of a drop off and totally worth it especially when you consider the maintenance savings in the long run...
I totally don't take into account the solaris because the fixture isn't made anymore and there are much better ones out there and DIY kits that are much better and use much less energy...
"While a lot of other factors that may be involved in making decisions such as power savings, cost, longevity, controllability, cost of ownership etc. these are not the factors considered here."
If you consider all those factors such as having to spend a ton of money on MH bulbs when LEDS can last 3-5 years that alone levels the field and possibly overtakes them...
Also the MH used 306W while the KR92 LED lamp used 110 and the MH had 278@24" and 190@30" while the KR92 LED had 224@24" and 160@30" To me using almost 1/3 of the watts for not that big of a drop off and totally worth it especially when you consider the maintenance savings in the long run...
I totally don't take into account the solaris because the fixture isn't made anymore and there are much better ones out there and DIY kits that are much better and use much less energy...
afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
And also in my research so far PAR might not pay as much a deal for LED's. Again there isn't too much research on this but I'm getting that impression from a bunch of real life applications...
DoctaQ
Non-member
did you mean that par isnt that big a deal with leds dave?
that is true imo
a 20k MH 150w and a 500w halogen might produce the same par, but which one will grow coral better?
on a similar note, ive seen that the spectral distrubutions between 20k MH and royal blue xr-e are very similar aside from the 20k having other random peaks aside from a heavy blue peak 450-460nm
cool white xr-e also have the peak but have a lot more of other colors especially yellow i think
that is true imo
a 20k MH 150w and a 500w halogen might produce the same par, but which one will grow coral better?
on a similar note, ive seen that the spectral distrubutions between 20k MH and royal blue xr-e are very similar aside from the 20k having other random peaks aside from a heavy blue peak 450-460nm
cool white xr-e also have the peak but have a lot more of other colors especially yellow i think
afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
Yes... I've read through thousands of posts and people are getting awesome growth with not awesome PAR numbers. I'm starting to believe that there is another benefit that someone hasn't quantified yet...
Actually, leds are the bulbs that lack in some of the important spectrums. If you want to learn more about lighting, hit a few of the "cash crop" sites. The reason some of those nano tanks appear to have good growth is because the corals are reaching for light, growing tall and spindly. This is no different than all plant life. All these tests are easy to manipulate, but if you add up the pars in all the grids on Sanjays test, the MH still blows all those other fixtures away. Imagine the how much more par per watt the MH would have produced if he had used a Iwasaki 175 14k which only draws 160w on an electronic ballast. The claim that these leds will keep their intensity for 3-5 years is laughable. Pc's made that claim, t5's, vho's etc.... My 12 year old 250w Iwasaki is still working too...
afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
Well the spectrum of the Cree Q5 cool white ~6500k bulb looks like it's not lacking the correct spectrum... Looks just like most T5 and MH bulb spectrums I've looked at...
For comparison the spectrum of the Geisemann aquablue daylight bulbs I'm using currently...
For comparison the spectrum of the Geisemann aquablue daylight bulbs I'm using currently...
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afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
And the spectrum of the Cree royal blue LEDs (blue line) again looks pretty close to the ATI blue + bulbs...
for comparison here is the ATI blue plus graph...
for comparison here is the ATI blue plus graph...
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afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
DoctaQ
Non-member
i agree with dave here, growing tall and spindly due to low light? ive never heard of this aside from zoas, stony coral growth shape has more to do with flow as far as i know.
bulb life, alright, so there have not been a ton of led fixtures out there for a long time so we dont know yet but there is no competition when it comes to light output compared to energy consumption and heat. there is no way to deal with a 70w halide heating a 2.5 aside from raising the light and wasting the light whereas 21 watts of leds will outperform with none of the heat. im building a fixture right now, 20 watts and i would put it up against any 70w halide
bulb life, alright, so there have not been a ton of led fixtures out there for a long time so we dont know yet but there is no competition when it comes to light output compared to energy consumption and heat. there is no way to deal with a 70w halide heating a 2.5 aside from raising the light and wasting the light whereas 21 watts of leds will outperform with none of the heat. im building a fixture right now, 20 watts and i would put it up against any 70w halide
afboundguy
Acan's are inedible candy
Yeah but when you buy 8-12 bulbs over 2-3 years at $80 a whack for $640-$960 (would need two on my 55) or I could spend $326 ($6.79x48) to replace everything prob at the 2 year mark even though I'd feel comfortable letting them go 3 years. At this time I do agree that they prob won't last longer than that. I don't buy the 5-10 year lifespan of LEDs. They will last that long but the spectrum/output prob wouldn't last that long...
Plus I'd only use 144 watts for 48 leds on my 55 instead of 350 watts plus a possible extra 100ish for T5 supplement lights if needed for the bulbs your using... Plus you don't have to worry about a chiller and overheating problems...
Even though the MH would prob put out a little bit more PAR than the LEDs but not enough to justify over twice the operating costs... To me it's a clear choice; more than half the energy and half the maintenance cost for bulb replacement... Plus add the ability to fully dim them is pretty sweet...
And really we could keep going back and forth because IMO there is no perfect lighting system out there... My favorite light might not work on your tank or Joe Schmo's tank, there are just too many variables... Everybody just has to weight the pros and cons of each lighting system and figure out what works for them...
Plus I'd only use 144 watts for 48 leds on my 55 instead of 350 watts plus a possible extra 100ish for T5 supplement lights if needed for the bulbs your using... Plus you don't have to worry about a chiller and overheating problems...
Even though the MH would prob put out a little bit more PAR than the LEDs but not enough to justify over twice the operating costs... To me it's a clear choice; more than half the energy and half the maintenance cost for bulb replacement... Plus add the ability to fully dim them is pretty sweet...
And really we could keep going back and forth because IMO there is no perfect lighting system out there... My favorite light might not work on your tank or Joe Schmo's tank, there are just too many variables... Everybody just has to weight the pros and cons of each lighting system and figure out what works for them...
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