Overflows vs. Drilled Glass Pane

[josho923]

Hi everybody, I'm an old pro when it comes to really advanced freshwater tanks (large planted tanks, discus, breeding, etc.) but I'm taking on saltwater for the first time. I've read, read, and read some more before jumping into a reef tank and am taking things very slowly, trying to do it the right way. I've got a general question for all of you:

I am looking to set up a 125 gallon tank and am not going to do HOB overflows. I plan to have a nice, large sump/refugium underneath for filtration, etc., and would really like to hear any advice re: choosing between: a reef ready tank with built-in overflows (nice, has benefits, but also uses up a lot of critical space and is a relative eyesore in tank itself) vs. buying a non-reef ready tank with a non-tempered posterior glass pane and drilling holes w/ bulkheads, etc. Would love to hear any thoughts on this. Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[choff]

Josh, if you are not afraid to drill holes then Google "bean animal over flow" look for the RC link (sorry not sure if we can link other forums here or I would just post it). My next tank will without a doubt run a coast to coast overflow with bean animal drains. They are whisper quiet, move a ton of water, fail safe and even minimize salt creep in the sump.

I am in the process of putting one in on my inline frag tank.

...stupid auto correct

 

[CAPSLOCK]

Drilled through the back with the glass-holes overflow.

 

[Docstach]

I am starting the process of upgrading to a similar system. I am planning on drilling the back wall of a non-reef ready 125g for a bean animal style custom overflow.

 

[JohnK]

For saltwater you want to avoid "direct extraction" because surface skimming is a lot more important than in freshwater. With freshwater surface film is unsightly and it's nice to get rid of it, but beyond that surface skimming isn't much of a concern. With saltwater you want the best surface skim you can get because that will allow your protien skimmer to do it's best work (and protien skimmers are great because although they don't pull out everything undesirable, what they do remove actually gets removed and doesn't sit in filter media to continue to break down in the water colum). "direct extraction" can do some surface skimming, but not very much or very effectively. Good to skim off the scum layer, but not much more.

The negatives on HOB overflows are pretty obvious, they can work but are always at least a little less reliable than drilled overflows.

A lot of the factory made "reef ready" tanks have fairly poor designs in terms of shape, placement, and sometimes overall design. DIY skills start to become more useful.....

If you are handy and willing to put the work into it, you can make just about any design you can think of. Options;
-Make any shape overflow box and set it up how you like.
-Actual drain options, traditional vented drains (duroso, gurgle buster, stockman), siphon drains (Herbie, requires two holes, or Bean which requires 3 holes. All siphon drains MUST have an emergency back up drain. The siphon drain is regulated by a valve to balance the drain flow to match the return pump's flow)


Probably the best design out there is a "bean animal" drain, that uses a long, thin in tank weir (ideally coast to coast), that then feeds an external overflow box mounted on the back of the tank. This gives a reliable, high flow drain with no micro bubbles going into the sump, and takes up little in tank space.

 

[josho923]

Thanks for all of the answers above. I have another question:

I think I am going with in-tank overflows, if for nothing else, because this is my first saltwater tank build and I don't think I'm ready to tackle the beananimal overflow setup just yet (though I've read up on it and it looks amazing). If anyone would be willing to help me set this up, I could pay you or trade some fish stuff, etc. I just don't think I could pull it off on my own yet.

Assuming I am going with the in-tank overflows, are there any major opinions on the "standard" overflows that are each about 1/3 lateral of the center of the tank vs. corner overflows? I'm leaning toward corner overflows because they seem to be a bit less intrusive on the main viewing portion of the tank, but I didn't know if there were any major cons with the corner overflows such as more dead space within the tank or something... Thanks again!

 

[P-Nut]

Whatever you choose get a BIG pipe for the overflow.
I just built a 40 breeder with 2x 1.5" drains.
Is it overkill? Yes.
Is it silent? More silent than anything out there and doesn't require a siphon.

I would not get an in tank overflow. They look like crap. I would drill a series of holes on the glass, get some glass and silicone an overflow box around the holes. Basically, make it look like a glass holes overflow, but glass siliconed to the back. This will also skim much better than the teeth.

 

[josho923]

If I try to do a bean animal design, do the new non-reef ready tanks come with regular glass (not tempered and thus drillable) for the back pane? If I go for the bean animal design, I'll definitely need some help, but I could at least pull the trigger now on a brand new, non-reef ready Marineland or Aqueon 125 gallon tank (the 6 foot long version). Any of you guys know for sure if the Marineland or Aqueon 125s automatically come with drillable rear panes?

 

[P-Nut]

You can find on their websites. I'm 99% sure that they can be drilled.

I have drilled aqueon tanks before. A 40 and a 90. I drilled the 40 on the bottom. The 90 on the side.

 

[cilyjr]

I am pretty sure none of the glass in a 125 is tempered. So you could drill any part.

I did a bean animal style drain system I used 1inch and I am pretty confident it could handle over 2000 gph silently. So an inch and a half is not nessecarry.

 

[cilyjr]

I drilled a 125 once. On the back 2holes. It was full of livestock and 1/2 of water. Lol wasn't my tank but nerve wracking none the less

 

[dz6t]

If you are talking about big tank like 150+ gallon, it may be better to get factory drilled tank.
There are several tank failure on RC for drilling large tanks, such as cracks developed over time.
Normally factor RR tanks are drilled then tempered.

 

[P-Nut]

I am pretty sure none of the glass in a 125 is tempered. So you could drill any part.

I did a bean animal style drain system I used 1inch and I am pretty confident it could handle over 2000 gph silently. So an inch and a half is not nessecarry.

I would like to see a couple of 1" overflows handling 2000 gal / hr with no noise at all.

 

[cilyjr]

Dongs probably If you are buying new and a tank that comes reef ready. Probably easiest to do that. Even if the odds are slim Drilling could crack the tank. I have drilled many tanks but when I do it for someone I always tell them there are no promises it won't break.

 

[cilyjr]

It's a siphon. I have mine pushing about 800 gph with the siphon about 3/4 closed and just a trickle down the durso pipe. You hear a wired ticking at dry start then quiet. For a debate on how a siphon drain works and the math on how much it can handle please see this thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1310585

 

[choff]

I'm putting a bean animal in right now in my 40B frag tank. It's totally unnecessary, but wanted to do it for kicks. It seems daunting, but it's really not that hard. This is my first homemade overflow too. So far I drilled the holes and just tonight siliconed in my overflow box. I'll leak test it tomorrow and if it's good I'll plumb it.

...stupid auto correct

 

[choff]

Btw, reef savvy tanks are using Bean animal overflows, they call them ghost overflows.

http://reefsavvy.com/ghost-overflow/

...stupid auto correct

 

[josho923]

Tough to decide. I was ready to go all in on the bean animal style last night until I saw dz6t's comment about the possibility of structural failure. I had obviously thought about cracks/damage during the drilling process itself, but hadn't thought much about cracks forming later on once the tank is filled... If done well/appropriately and there's no appreciable issue after the drilling itself is complete, how much do you guys worry about structural failure later on with tanks that you've drilled, especially a 125 gallon?

 

[cilyjr]

Not at all really. I lean towards having a tank predrilled because it's simply easier than drilling it. I drilled my 180 because I found a used one for a deal. I have heard reef savvy was doing this pre done bean overflow. Worth a look I'd suppose.

 

[choff]

My 125 sump was my very first tank I ever drilled. I won't say I wasn't nervous while I was doing it, but after the fact I had no concerns. I practiced on a few scraps of glass that was left over from the baffles I had cut. I would highly recommend finding some scrap and doing the same. After 1 or 2 holes you feel like a pro. I have only cut a total of 6 holes before I just cut these 3 for my bean animal and I was about as confident as can be. No failures yet or cracked tanks yet. That said, it's always a possibility even through no fault of your own. If there is a big enough flaw or inclusion where you are cutting it can happen.

Just go slow, keep an even hand and have some water running over the cut.

Check out this video. You will see it's not much more complicated to build than a durso. It's really just 1 extra hole. You'll also see some variations in the plumbing that make it look it a little less daunting like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZ2198nJtw

This guy compares durso and bean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca1yPPaePfk


BTW, filled my over flow this morning for a leak test. No immediate issues. If it's still dry by the time I get home from work I will plumb the frag tank tonight and then tomorrow night do the finish finish plumbing to tie it in to the main system.

My DT is going to flow into my FT which will then drain into my sump. If I could put a Bean on my DT I would, but the back panel is tempered glass so I can't reconfigure it easily.